rotating while rotating.

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rotating while rotating.

Postby swimflyfast » Fri May 05, 2017 4:42 am

I have been absent from this product and forum for many years. Glad to see its still here.

I would like to have a large inner circle (arrows) rotating at a slow rate and a smaller circle of arrows that rotate at a faster rate while circling around the bigger one.
has anyone figured this out?

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I hope to be a contributor as soon as I catch back up from years lost not using this great tool. :lol:

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Re: rotating while rotating.

Postby cherub » Fri May 05, 2017 6:28 am

These are ProShow's limitations:
Each layer can have but one type of rotation, around a single Rotation Center.
Let's say that the bigger circle has a Rotation Center in its middle. (0,0)
The smaller circle needs to have a Rotation Center that is in exactly in the same place as the bigger circle. Insert negative and/or positive values for the Rotation Center, until you see that it is absolutely in the same place as the 0,0 of the bigger one. This will cause the smaller circle to circle around the bigger one.
BUT, the smaller circle will not be able to rotate in itself. It will remain static. There is no option for a second type of rotation with a second Rotation Center, in its own middle.

Not exactly the effect that you are after, but that's all that we can do for now.

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Re: rotating while rotating.

Postby heckydog » Fri May 05, 2017 7:12 pm

It could be done using other software, then importing an animated gif or other video into ProShow.

I don't have Gold but I would guess it can import a video the same way Producer can.

Joe

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Re: rotating while rotating.

Postby cherub » Fri May 05, 2017 7:52 pm

heckydog wrote:It could be done using other software, then importing an animated gif or other video into ProShow.

I don't have Gold but I would guess it can import a video the same way Producer can.

Joe


Yes, of course.
Gold can import an animated gif or video the same way as Producer, though it doesn't have the Chroma Key adjustments that might be needed here.

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Re: rotating while rotating.

Postby Lin Evans » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:57 pm

swimflyfast wrote:I have been absent from this product and forum for many years. Glad to see its still here.

I would like to have a large inner circle (arrows) rotating at a slow rate and a smaller circle of arrows that rotate at a faster rate while circling around the bigger one.
has anyone figured this out?

Image

I hope to be a contributor as soon as I catch back up from years lost not using this great tool. :lol:


Is this what you're looking for?

Lin
https://youtu.be/Tv3wQUQyaIQ

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Re: rotating while rotating.

Postby cherub » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:09 pm

Lin Evans wrote:
Is this what you're looking for?

Lin
https://youtu.be/Tv3wQUQyaIQ


A bit late for answering...

What you are showing is just that the small circle can rotate around the RC of the large one. That's simple.
The original poster wants the small circle to rotate in itself as well, around its own rotation center.
See my explanation above for the limitations of ProShow.

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Re: rotating while rotating.

Postby Lin Evans » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:19 am

Look again. The small circle is rotating on its own center axis as well as rotating around the large circle. I can make it rotate at any speed on its own axis as it rotates around the large rotating circle. It's not done with Prowshow. I answered because there are many misconceptions about competitive software and some people who have little knowledge of what other products can do (Jeep for example) have made misleading statements. As a user of many slideshow software products, I'm quite familiar with many....

https://youtu.be/_6JfmYB8U80

Best regards,

Lin

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Re: rotating while rotating.

Postby im42n8 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:18 pm

Actually Lin, the smaller circle seems to be keeping its same face to the larger circle ... it isn’t independently rotating, at least from the looks of it.

That you are able to implement two or more rotation points for a given object while using a different software is commendable ... but it didn’t exactly answer the question asked. It’s not possible in ProShow directly. In Gold, it’s not possible. It is, however “possible” in Producer. There would, of course be some limitations. However, using a video of one or both objects as separate videos, it would be possible to give the appearance of multiple rotation centers. Producer has masking capability. With a video mask creating the effect of a transparent background, you can create the desired effect. Of course, the rotation speed of the object in the video would have to be adjusted for faster or slower rotation speeds...

Jeep hasn’t provided incorrect information about other products . . . All competing applications have their pro’s and con’s. ProShow has its own pro’s and con’s too. Some have a better time handling certain types of effects. However, depending upon what you’re trying to do, on balance, ProShow is heads and shoulders above competing products.

Dale
What's New: Tools for ProShow: v11.42a Access ProShow capabilities Photodex doesn't provide (For PSG & PSP).
FPVP Blog "Making the Difficult Easier," FPVP News

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Re: rotating while rotating.

Postby Lin Evans » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:25 pm

im42n8 wrote:Actually Lin, the smaller circle seems to be keeping its same face to the larger circle ... it isn’t independently rotating, at least from the looks of it.

That you are able to implement two or more rotation points for a given object while using a different software is commendable ... but it didn’t exactly answer the question asked. It’s not possible in ProShow directly. In Gold, it’s not possible. It is, however “possible” in Producer. There would, of course be some limitations. However, using a video of one or both objects as separate videos, it would be possible to give the appearance of multiple rotation centers. Producer has masking capability. With a video mask creating the effect of a transparent background, you can create the desired effect. Of course, the rotation speed of the object in the video would have to be adjusted for faster or slower rotation speeds...

Jeep hasn’t provided incorrect information about other products . . . All competing applications have their pro’s and con’s. ProShow has its own pro’s and con’s too. Some have a better time handling certain types of effects. However, depending upon what you’re trying to do, on balance, ProShow is heads and shoulders above competing products.

Dale


Dale,

The small circle is rotating on it's own center - apparently you're looking at the first example where I made it rotate slower. Look at this one. I can make the small circle circumnavigate the large circle with zero rotation about its own center or with backward rotation or with any speed rotation and even make it start at zero rotation on its own center and accelerate throughout the entire scene. Here's a faster rotation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6JfmYB ... e=youtu.be (link to sample showing faster rotation of small circle)

Sadly Jeep has provided incorrect information. For example this statement: "PTE is far from the possibilities of ProShow ant its development structure is unstable" The "development structure" of PTE is very, very stable. PTE is poised to launch a full 64 bit MacIntosh version in 2019 followed by a full 64 bit Windows version. "Far from the possibilities of Proshow?" What does this even mean? A software which is used by the vast majority of winning slideshow competitions worldwide and recipient of the Dobsin Henry Medal by the Royal Photographic Society For outstanding contributions in the Audio-Visual Medium is hardly "far from the possibilities of Proshow". Jeep is trying to argue that PTE doesn't create true 3D which is dead wrong period. It has true 3D transforms and the link I posted to the demonstration shows that clearly. He's arguing about something he has no clue about. PTE launched Parent/child/grandchild hierarchical structure eleven years ago and true 3D transform nine years ago. I don't mind explaining that to anyone who truly is interested nor do I mind showing examples. Jeep has a problem accepting facts and talks out his behind and there is no way to ameliorate that. Anyone who uses both Producer and PTE knows well that what I'm saying is absolutely correct. There is simply no comparing the animation capabilities of the two softwares. I believe in being fair and explaining the differences both strengths and weaknesses of different products. That's the only way people can make a fair decision about which products are suitable for their projects.

Here is a link to the demonstration I posted earlier before Jeep began arguing. He is under the mistaken impression that Producer and PTE use the same type of pseudo 3D transforms. They are very, very different. PTE created true 3D transforms not pseudo transforms like Producer... Look at the 3D cubes made with producer - they always "jerk" - always. It's simple to know when a cube animation is made by Producer. Now look at any 3D animation by PTE - you will not find a "jerk" because the object created are true 3D objects. Try to create a 20 sided geometrical construct with Producer which rotates, zooms, pans, etc. You can't do it. Try to create a book page turning like this with Producer. You can't do it.

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&ar=1&v ... 18YJIsjI2g (book style pages - real 3D pages no flat pseudo BS)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1_q7XdSjvI (demonstration of PTE's animation capabilities)

Best regards,

Lin
Last edited by Lin Evans on Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: rotating while rotating.

Postby im42n8 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:25 pm

Oh heck, PTE does do real 3D ... that’s for sure. However, Photodex’s version is a simulation of the 3rd dimension. Truly a bummer. I didn’t realize Jeep made that statement about PTE ... haven’t seen it. I do know that PTE’s had 3D capabilities for years.

I’m more than a little knowledgeable about the significant limitations in ProShow ... having dug into what’s possible (...if you know some of its secrets) or not. Hence, my “Tools For ProShow” worksheet and my “Beyond the Manual” book. I’ve used PTE a little in the past but never really got into it.

Dale
What's New: Tools for ProShow: v11.42a Access ProShow capabilities Photodex doesn't provide (For PSG & PSP).
FPVP Blog "Making the Difficult Easier," FPVP News

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Re: rotating while rotating.

Postby Lin Evans » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:03 pm

Dale,

They each have strengths and weaknesses. Proshow has a tremendous following and a huge assortment of styles, themes, etc., available. When people ask me which software is best for Wedding Photographers I nearly always recommend Proshow Producer. On the other hand when they ask about animation capabilities I recommend PTE.

Producer uses a vast number of file formats. PTE does not. Producer has some really nice features which are not yet implemented with PTE such as the ability for photographers to set up and live play at events which is a very, very nice feature. Other things such as the web capabilities are very useful and a feature which I love about it.

Some of the problems which I'm betting are plaguing the developers of Proshow are the very quantity of features available. This itself makes creating a new 64 bit version and a MacIntosh version very difficult and time consuming and subsequently expensive. There are always trade-offs with any development plan. As a former software developer I'm well aware of the problems in trying to implement change once a decision has been made to follow a path.

I hope Photodex can solve their present problems and continue. The developers of PicturesToExe hope the same. Competition is good for the business and of course good for users because it keeps developers on their toes. The main differences I see are the willingness of PTE's developers to allow all registered users access to the beta versions and to join in testing. I think this is something Photodex should consider because users have been asking for certain features for years and seems to have fallen on deaf ears. For example, as you well know and have written about and created tutorials for, the awkward way of changing the center could be made so much easier. They could learn a few things from PTE about that. With PTE you can simply press the shift key and mouse click over the tiny center icon circle and drag it anywhere on the object. If you want to or need to be absolutely precise you can enter the numeric values, but in the majority of cases it's not necessary. This vastly speeds up the creation of animations where the center of an object is moved. Also, the parent/child/grandchild feature which Jeep say is implemented in version 9 of Producer is a dynamite improvement if it's done properly. For example, the reason I can easily change the rotation on the small circle example is that I can create a second identical small circle, make it a child of the first. set the two precisely on top of one another and at the identical size. Move the center on the parent to the center of the large circle, set it to rotate around the circumference of the large circle, make the parent invisible with zero opacity. Leave the center of the visible child at its own center and set the rotation for this object any way I want. Because the child object follows the parent's motion in orbit around the larger rotating circle yet can be rotated in any direction or speed, etc., on it's own center it orbits the larger rotating circle yet rotates as desired on its own center. This is just one of many differences which could be addressed if the developers listened to their users.

There is plenty of room for using more than one tool for creating shows. We all use PhotoShop, Audacity, etc., Many of us use Bluff Titler, I also use the old and now defunct Particle Illusion and sometimes even Adobe products such as AfterEffects. Whatever it takes to get the job done. The community owes lots to people like you who create tutorials and help users understand Producer. I do similar things for users of PTE. They are all great tools and it's been fun to see them develop over the years. I was a very early beta tester for Proshow (not Producer or Gold) - the original product from Photodex as well as a tester for PTE back before it was launched in 1998. I enjoy both these products and want to see both succeed. It bothers me when good ideas get mired down because of finances, etc. Hopefully the problems at Photodex can soon be solved...

Best regards,

Lin

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Re: rotating while rotating.

Postby im42n8 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:45 pm

There is no parent/child/grandchild hierarchy in ProShow. Not in any traditional sense that I'm aware of. ProShow modifiers can make things act as if there's a Parent/Child relationship ... but, it's something the user actually creates. However, it's effectively something that users have been asking for. The "Filters" in v9 gave the appearance of a parent/child. However, they're more an automated modifier feature than not (modifiers in PTE are CONSIDERABLY different than those in ProShow).

Many things could have been improved in ProShow, but weren't. The outlining, cropping, shadowing features are virtually the same now as when they were introduced. These days, those features are awfully ... primitive compared to what they probably should be. The rotation center feature has much more functionality than Photodex gave access to.

Modifiers haven't changed, essentially, since first introduced some 8 years ago. V9s filters, introduced a year ago, were a step in the direction of semi-automating the linking of one layer to another. Still, there's only 1 rotation center per object ... I can't even simulate the appearance of an additional rotation center (not without some major tricks...which involve 3rd party software). A layer can't inherit a rotate center from another layer and still use its own rotate center function separate from the inherited one. Nope. All it can do is "modify" the rotation it sees from another layer.

[s i g h ]

I'll have to play with PTE to figure out more about it.

Dale
What's New: Tools for ProShow: v11.42a Access ProShow capabilities Photodex doesn't provide (For PSG & PSP).
FPVP Blog "Making the Difficult Easier," FPVP News

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Re: rotating while rotating.

Postby Jeep » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:33 pm

I see that the PTE / ProShow discussion has moved.
I am sorry that the terms I used were misinterpreted.
ProShow has great features that PTE does not have. Lin mentioned them in his message, thanks to him for these mentions. These functions are important for those who need to use them. Yes, the rotation center problem is difficult to deal with but it is not necessarily something that penalizes users in a given daily job. We would of course all want that all that we need is present in the software but this software shall be a monster to handle !
About my comment on PTE's instability, it's simply because the software was developed with legitimate requests from users and the developer added them as and when requests where there was room in the different windows. Many of these features came after Photodex had implemented them in ProShow as some PTE users were defectors of ProShow and asked for what they appreciated in it. I find that the interface of PTE is not easy for someone who starts and it is the feeling of what tell me the people who use PTE around me (yes there are some :D ).
PTE has excellent features but its interface should be clearer.
There was a big discussion on the concept of 3D and I remain firm on what I said. You can only make real 3D objects in a real 3D software like BluffTitler or Blender. Where is the consideration of distances in a 3D space ? Where are the drop shadows of objects ? Where is the hierarchy of objects relative to each other in the 3D space ? Where are the cameras and their focuses ? Where are the lights and there directions ? Yes we can think that what we see is in 3D but it is a limited 3D and you would have great difficulties (or impossibilities) to build a full scene in 3D with PTE (and of course with ProShow). I think that each software has its prerogatives and that the user should focus on specific products for advanced features like 3D. I happily use BluffTitler, which is one of the major products with regard to its quality / price ratio in the 3D domain. I do not imagine that editing software can integrate functions like this because it would quickly become a gigantic "gas plant" that requires a manual of several hundred pages and hours of training.
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