What output format should we use, to play on PC?

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What output format should we use, to play on PC?

Postby Triggaaar » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:59 am

I've been using PSG version 4.
I thought we should use the .exe format for files that we'd later play on a PC. It seems I was wrong. They put too much strain on the PC, and can get jittery (certainly for big files).

PSG 4 can't output Mpeg 4, so I tried using Mpeg 2. The resulting slideshow was smooth and very high quality. Perfect, except that the file size was over 9GB (for a 20 minute slideshow). That's too big for me to write onto a DVD and give to a client.

So I tried downloading PSG 6 (tiral version). Using create output > video file, there are dozens of options. The MPEG-4 > H.264 1080p option is disabled (needs a plug-in), but the AVI > MPEG-4 SP 1080P works, resulting in an avi file. The resulting avi file is 1.2GB. It wouldn't play with windows media player, I had to use VLC (not ideal with something for clients). The quality was fine, but fine isn't really what I'm after, having seen the beauty of a 9GB MPEG 2 file.

So, what files should we use for clients to view their slideshows on a PC? Should we have PSG 6, and a plugin for creating decent MPEG 4 files (which seems a bit ridiculous)? Or is there another type of output to create high quality videos for PC use?

Thanks

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Re: What output format should we use, to play on PC?

Postby larry31 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:55 am

Maybe you could just convert the video file type to another file type using a video converter program.
This one was recommended to me from a ProShow tech. a while back..... http://www.videoconverterfactory.com/hd ... converter/

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Re: What output format should we use, to play on PC?

Postby Triggaaar » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:49 am

Thanks, I'll take a look at that.

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Re: What output format should we use, to play on PC?

Postby Triggaaar » Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:00 am

larry31 wrote:Maybe you could just convert the video file type to another file type using a video converter program.
This one was recommended to me from a ProShow tech. a while back..... http://www.videoconverterfactory.com/hd ... converter/

Just tried that - didn't work to well. I tried converting an MPEG-2 file to an MP4. I tried a few settings, and the compression was huge, but the results were poor. The images looked ok, when it worked, but there was stuttery playback, and sometimes completely corrupted images.

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Re: What output format should we use, to play on PC?

Postby Betty » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:34 am

Here is an interesting article on Photodex's website "Getting Quality Executable Shows Without Sacrificing Performance in ProShow 5

http://kb.photodex.com/1900/getting-quality-executable-shows-without-sacrificing-performance/

I hope this helps.

Also "Getting Show to Fit on a DVD"

http://kb.photodex.com/2025/getting-show-to-fit-on-a-dvd/

Regards,
Betty

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Re: What output format should we use, to play on PC?

Postby Triggaaar » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:17 am

Betty wrote:Here is an interesting article on Photodex's website "Getting Quality Executable Shows Without Sacrificing Performance in ProShow 5

http://kb.photodex.com/1900/getting-quality-executable-shows-without-sacrificing-performance/

Thanks. I've had that bookmarked for years. But it seems the quality from an Mpeg video is higher (with the right settings), and you don't have to rely on the client having a decent PC to play it.

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Re: What output format should we use, to play on PC?

Postby gpsmikey » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:27 am

Yes, mpeg4 is probably one of the best (current) formats and can be viewed across many different platforms (unlike an exe that can only be run on a PC (or a virtual PC on some other machine)). Just remember that all of these formats - mpeg2, mpeg4 etc. are "lossy" formats - data is lost during the compression which is part of how they make it compress so well (unlike loss-less compression formats like .zip files where you get back exactly what you put in). Any time you re-compress or convert between lossy formats, you lose image quality - some of the conversions really become obvious when you view the result. If you want the best possible quality in several formats for the same show, either re-render the show for each format or render to an uncompressed format and use that to convert to the desired output formats so you have a clean starting point each time. Recognize that an uncompressed avi file for example can be HUGE !!

mikey
You can't have too many gadgets or too much disk space !!
mikey (PSP6, Photoshop CS6, Vegas Pro 14, Acid 7, BluffTitler, Nikon D300s, D810)
Lots of PIC and Arduino microprocessor stuff too !!

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Re: What output format should we use, to play on PC?

Postby Triggaaar » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:13 pm

gpsmikey wrote:Yes, mpeg4 is probably one of the best (current) formats and can be viewed across many different platforms (unlike an exe that can only be run on a PC (or a virtual PC on some other machine)). Just remember that all of these formats - mpeg2, mpeg4 etc. are "lossy" formats
The Mpeg4 H.264 file from Producer is excellent, and the Mpeg2 file from Gold is also very good. The exe suffers from jitter, even on a fast PC.

If you want the best possible quality in several formats for the same show, either re-render the show for each format or render to an uncompressed format and use that to convert to the desired output formats so you have a clean starting point each time. Recognize that an uncompressed avi file for example can be HUGE !!
Thanks. What settings would you use to render an uncompressed file, that's then well suited to converting? (and is that only from Producer, or from Gold too)?

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Re: What output format should we use, to play on PC?

Postby gpsmikey » Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:32 pm

Been a while since I used the uncompressed route - just did a quick test. 15 second show (3 slides) to uncompressed 1280*720, 29.97fps, avi. 1.3GB (but the good news is it renders really fast :shock: ) You get there from the Custom option and select the uncompressed avi in the format then enter the dimensions.

I think with a longer show I would stay with the idea of rendering several different formats if needed from the master (from in Producer/Gold).
You can't have too many gadgets or too much disk space !!
mikey (PSP6, Photoshop CS6, Vegas Pro 14, Acid 7, BluffTitler, Nikon D300s, D810)
Lots of PIC and Arduino microprocessor stuff too !!

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Re: What output format should we use, to play on PC?

Postby Triggaaar » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:49 am

gpsmikey wrote:You get there from the Custom option and select the uncompressed avi in the format then enter the dimensions.
Thanks - managed to make a couple from Producer. A 19 second show at 3.5 GB :lol:

I've then tried converting this to MP4 with a couple of different settings, which brings the files down to 16 or 28 MB. The colour is ok, the resolution is fine, but the files don't work with all media players (Windows Media Player crashes, etc).

The best result has been creating an MP4 from Producer - sharp, not jittery, excellent colour (with Quicktime and VLC Media Player), file works with all media players I've tried. I'm happy with that as my chosen method, just need to find out why it was creating the file incorrectly (wrong colour profile) half the time.

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Re: What output format should we use, to play on PC?

Postby gpsmikey » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:07 am

Yes - I have seen some pretty complex rendering paths over in the video forums involving frameserving and utilities such as handbrake. It all gets pretty complicated and I have just stayed with using the output from Producer (or Sony Vegas if playing with video). It will be interesting to see if you (or Photodex) can identify just what the issue is with the "sometimes it is right" color profile you have been running into. That was why I asked if you saw the same issue if you rendered to mp2, exited Producer, restarted it then rendered to mp4. If that always works correctly, but it doesn't work correctly if you do the mp2 then mp4 (without exiting Producer), that indicates something internal that is set by default when Producer starts is being modified by the mp2 process. Gives a bit more insight into just where the issue is happening.

Now if I can just figure out why my backup utility dropped empty directories when is was not supposed to (only noticed it when I restored to a new drive from my archive). "Features" :evil:

mikey
You can't have too many gadgets or too much disk space !!
mikey (PSP6, Photoshop CS6, Vegas Pro 14, Acid 7, BluffTitler, Nikon D300s, D810)
Lots of PIC and Arduino microprocessor stuff too !!

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Re: What output format should we use, to play on PC?

Postby Triggaaar » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:59 am

I'll test it for you. It's Easter, so looking after the kids is interfering with trying to get work done.

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Re: What output format should we use, to play on PC?

Postby gpsmikey » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:35 pm

Hey, I know how the munchkin patrol works. You can watch them for hours and nothing happens, turn your head for 30 seconds and the house is gone :D

mikey
You can't have too many gadgets or too much disk space !!
mikey (PSP6, Photoshop CS6, Vegas Pro 14, Acid 7, BluffTitler, Nikon D300s, D810)
Lots of PIC and Arduino microprocessor stuff too !!

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Re: What output format should we use, to play on PC?

Postby Triggaaar » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:23 am

gpsmikey wrote:Hey, I know how the munchkin patrol works. You can watch them for hours and nothing happens, turn your head for 30 seconds and the house is gone :D
:lol:

I've just done the testing you suggested, and posted it in the trouble shooting thread.

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