Music copyrights and you, basics

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Re: Music copyrights and you, basics

Postby DickK » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:08 am

First, let me say that the answers I'm about to give are my opinion and no more. Technically speaking there's no way to know what will happen in any circumstance until a specific judge rules in a specific case, creating case law. Bottom line is that there are two issues--what appears to be legal/illegal if you read the law and what happens in court. So...

tjdowning wrote:If you go to one of the websites who can make you shows, under the music they usually have that you must give them the original CD's due to copyright laws. But am I understanding that this is not right either? And if so, wouldn't these businesses be the first ones to get caught?

Nothing's simple when it comes to law. First we have to assume this is an ordinary retail CD purchase of commercial music. There's probably a violation of copyright here. Who is the violator is, to my knowledge, remains untested in court--no case law. The person/company making the show may be or it may be the person who contracted with them to make the show. My guess is that is likely to depend heavily on exactly what the contract says. If they've done their job correctly, then there will be language saying they're not liable for infringement and that the provider is liable if they haven't obtained the proper rights. That might, or might not, stand up in court depending on lots of factors. In any case, it won't protect the person who signed the contract for the work and provided the CD. As to getting caught, the infringed party has to become aware of the infringement and take action. If they're aggressive they might file suit. More likely they'll send a "cease and desist" demand to the person/company then watch to see what happens. But they may also decide to ignore the whole thing because they expect that even if they win there will be no punitive damages, so it isn't worth the effort.

tjdowning wrote:So.....if you make a show for viewing at a wedding and do not charge, you are in violation of the music copyright rules if you use downloaded songs or from CD's.????? I would understand more if you charged for these to make a profit, but come on, how can this be a problem???

Your charging for it or not is irrelevant with respect to the legal issue. You don't have the rights to produce a derivative work so you are infringing their rights. Period, end of story. Of course, it's entirely up to them to enforce those rights and they may not bother.

tjdowning wrote:My daughter said a coworker made a slideshow for their church and GAVE away copies to whoever wanted them. Somehow he got turned in and was fined and spent 3 months in jail. Is this for real????!!!!! Something is definately wrong here.

99.9% probability this, as stated, is "urban myth." Ask for a court cite and look it up. First, jail time implies a criminal case and that's not. Copyright is a civil issue in nearly all cases--tho' the recording industry has managed to get certain, very specific things into criminal law. Second, as stated, this would never go to court. There would be a rapid out-of-court settlement which might or might not include payment of a fee.

tjdowning wrote:We all need to make sure all those recording artists have bigger homes and more cars and more money since they all really look like they are hurting. :lol:

Unfortunately for them, the artists are irrelevant here. Generally, they will directly benefit from none of the court actions. Nor are they likely to benefit from the licensing fees of the type that would be involved for this work. Copyright and IP law in general is valuable and have a necessary place -- that's not the issue. The problem is that the whole scheme is breaking down in the face of digital technology and their inability to figure out how to adjust their business models.

Dick

Caveat: This information is the opinion of it's author and does not constitute legal advice of any kind. Risk associated with the use or misuse of this information is entirely the responsibility of the reader. If these issues are important to you, consult an intellectual property rights attorney.
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Re: Music copyrights and you, basics

Postby BarbaraC » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:35 am

The problem is that the whole scheme is breaking down in the face of digital technology and their inability to figure out how to adjust their business models.

Probably that right there is what's confused all of us, including the music industry itself. Furthermore, there's a kind of Internet attitude that's understandable, and it's the one of "if it's out there, it's free for the taking." We all think this way to a greater or lesser extent, and it's an internal moral battle we should try to go through. I finally managed to settle this one for myself by deciding that, if the music is just for the fun of it, if the only real copy of the show is the one I've burned to DVD for my own amusement along with that of family and a few friends, then I'll be darned if I'm going to seek permission even if it's royalty free. Where I draw the line is immediately after this. I refuse to use someone else's hard work during the public performance of my own work without that other person's permission.

But it is SUCH a temptation, and I think it's one we need to guard against. By supporting those musicians who are going it alone without the dubious benefit of the corporate industry, we help the independents further their careers, and this, in turn, encourages other musicians to do the same.

The digital world is a revolutionary one. It may well kill the big music corporations if they don't find a way to get on board. Frankly, I hardly care about them, but I do care a lot about the musicians themselves.

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Re: Music copyrights and you, basics

Postby LaughingBuddy » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:51 pm

I'm brand new here....just starting to learn Producer. Had PSG for about 3 or 4 years and did a few fun, family, friends shows. I made one show of some mural paintings on the local city levee wall....gave it to the volunteer lady who was the driving force for the paintings....went to her house for a supper with the artist for him to see it. He asked if I'd do the same type thing for his other sites around the country. I was not retired at that time, am now, and said no, and also told him that the music I used was copyrighted and should not be distributed.

He knew I played with a band, so he said, how about just using the music from your band. Ha! Well, you know, we just might have to all become musicians, and just use our own music! That would solve all this stuff. And...as this forum is obviously full of talented, creative people....if you're not a musician now, I bet you could become one! :D

Anyway, there's always a legal way to do stuff, if you want to. Just my one cent worth....I'll save the other penny for something later. :)

By the Way....I'm loving reading thru the forum, and thanks for such a great place to come and share and learn. I've got lots of learning :shock: to do, but looking forward to it!

laughingBuddy :lol:

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Re: Music copyrights and you, basics

Postby BarbaraC » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:25 am

Welcome aboard!

So, is your first name Laughing, or is it Buddy? :D

I started delving into creating my own music, but I've since decided my son does it a whole lot better. He's already done a bit for me. It sure is nice having an in-house musician.

What kind of music do you play? Instrument? Vocals? Have you worked at all with digital synthesizers? Good Lord, man, tell me!

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Re: Music copyrights and you, basics

Postby LaughingBuddy » Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:01 am

Thanks Barbara! :D

Sorry I'm so long in getting back to ya! I didn't mark this to email me when a response was added, and I couldn't find it right away. Plus, busy with going over some PS tutorials and other stuff in life. :?

I'm not much of a musician, but enjoy the heck outta it all. I have a few instruments around, and play a little at a lot of them...heh heh. Therefore, not very good at any. I enjoy playing almost all types of music, but mainly Old Time (maybe thought of as Hillbilly music). Songs from the 1700's and 1800's and pre-1940 with banjos, autoharps, mandolins, fiddles, guitar, etc. I have a midi keyboard I enjoy and an American Indian Flute that is just a beautiful sounding instrument and a peaceful pleasure to play. The group/band I was with made a CD of Old Time music.

I used to hook the midi keyboard up to the computer, but haven't in a long, long time. Not sure I'd remember how. Glad your son plays music for ya! It's a great thing for young folks to have.....keeps 'em outta trouble for the most part.

I've still got lots to learn with PSP, and will keep on wading through info here. I'll be back asking a gazillion questions of all you pro's here, I'm sure! :D

LaughingBuddy (Stanley)

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Re: Music copyrights and you, basics

Postby BarbaraC » Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:31 am

Stanley, first of all, just set it up in your profile so you're automatically notified when there's a reply in a thread that you've participated in.

Second, old-time music is great, so don't sound so apologetic about it. Hook up the midi keyboard, for goodness sake, and start producing music for your shows. You can do it!

Third, my son is thirty years old, and thus I'm not too worried about him getting into trouble. Thank all the gods in existence because, as it is, I only barely survived his teen years. The male of the species should be caged for the first two-and-a-half decades of life.

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Re: Music copyrights and you, basics

Postby debngar » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:02 pm

Stanley,

You might enjoy this link called Mandolin Cafe in that case that I discovered quite a while back. There is some AWESOME quality music on this site.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/mp3/
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Re: Music copyrights and you, basics

Postby stickgirl » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:13 pm

debngar wrote:There is some AWESOME quality music on this site.


Debbie - I don't know whether Stanley enjoys this site, but I sure do. Thanks for posting it.

Kathy

LaughingBuddy

Re: Music copyrights and you, basics

Postby LaughingBuddy » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:38 pm

Barbara.....thanks for the encouragement! I have 2 daughters about the same age as your son. I just told them that when they turned 13, I was going to tie them up and put them in the closet.....and that I would open it up and untie them when they were 21. They always wondered....and seemed to do pretty good for real pretty girls. But, you're right....there's no hope for the hormone-soaked teenage boy....just put 'em in a cage! :shock:

Debbie....thanks for the info. That is a very neat site. I've been trying to learn/improve on my mandolin playing lately and have been looking at some of their lessons here: http://www.mandolincafe.com/lessons.html. I'm glad you and Kathy enjoy that good music. Thanks again!

Stanley :D

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Re: Music copyrights and you, basics

Postby BarbaraC » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:48 pm

Debbie, super site! Thank you for that one.

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Re: Music copyrights and you, basics

Postby Studio7Productions » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:37 pm

Copyright does not only apply to music.....what about the Templates, The Borders, The Masks, The Backgrounds we all use in our shows, and as a footnote, one of the members is using a Avatar of Mickey Mouse......does he/she have the right to do that? I used a very small image of Mickey Mouse on a Theatre Show Poster a few years ago, and Disney Sued me for $4000.....

And so the story goes on, and on and on......into infinity.......
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Re: Music copyrights and you, basics

Postby BarbaraC » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:44 pm

As far as I know, no one here has stolen any templates, masks, or anything else from the rest of us. Members give away their own work. That's different from giving away the work of someone else.

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Re: Music copyrights and you, basics

Postby Studio7Productions » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:49 pm

How do you know.........who would own up to it.........if no-one in here has never used anything that they did not create themselves, then we are all on a different planet......

Going off now, this is getting too serious and ridiculous...

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Re: Music copyrights and you, basics

Postby debngar » Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:34 pm

I agree with you Mel. People really don't often know where they get the templates, or soundbites or images etc that they often innocently share with others.

I tried to raise the awareness of this a while back when I wanted to use a small flame video in a show of mine I had on my computer. It got me to thinking. I got that clip in another group but that person who shared it didn't know the terms of use. So I asked some questions to see if I could nail that down. I found the original site where the author of that clip placed it (not the person who shared it in another group. I decided it wasn't ok for me to use that clip after all.

BUT, then I got thinking some more. I figured out how to shoot my OWN flame video with my old point and shoot camera, edit it and have it for my very own to use as I wish. I learned some neat things in the process.

A short while later, a few people asked me if I would share the video with them. But instead of giving it away, I shared how anyone could actually just make their own so they wouldn't have copyright issues to deal with and they could use their own flame as many times as their little heart desired! Granted, some people may not have wanted to bother doing it themselves. But that's their choice. They had all the control over that.

See this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7777&p=64287&hilit=Flame#p64287
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hootowls

Re: Music copyrights and you, basics

Postby hootowls » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:54 am

Dick -

Do the same rules apply to printed materials?

I collect postcards. I have old cards dating to 1900. I would love to scan them and create a history slide show showing how thing have changed throughout the years.

hootowls

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