How can I fix a jittery slideshow

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How can I fix a jittery slideshow

Postby Triggaaar » Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:24 am

My slideshow has the jitters, and I can't seem to fix it.

The details:
ProShow 4.52
Output format = .exe
PC = Win 7, i7 6GB
Camera: D800
File sizes,
Attempt 1: 1mb to 17mb
Attempts 2 & 3: 2mb to 5mb
Number of photos: 367
Slideshow length: 20:28
Output settings:
Window Size = 1920 x 1080
Full Screen, Start Maximised = Yes
Rendering - Limit rendering size = 1920 x 1080 (attempt 1 was 2560 ish)
Resising - Manually limit images = 1920 x 1080 (attempt 1 was 2560 ish)
Image Quality = 80%
Audio Quality = Low
Video quality (no video in show)
Finished .exe files size,
Attempt 1 = 470 MB
Attempt 2 = 183 MB
Attempt 3 = 154 MB

Styles used: basic light background zooms and pans, and full frame zooms and pans - all moderated a little to have less movement than the default.

All 3 resulting files have the same problem. Half of the slideshow is fine, but some of the panning shots are very jittery / jerky. The images look fine in all shows, it's just the movement that's a problem.

What should I look at changing to fix the problem?
Thanks

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Re: How can I fix a jittery slideshow

Postby Triggaaar » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:30 am

Update:

1) I removed all music from the show, and created with settings described as above, and the results were the same. (finished file size 142 MB)
2) As above, but I removed 300 ish photos - and it was perfectly smooth (finished file size 24 MB)

Any ideas?

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Re: How can I fix a jittery slideshow

Postby gpsmikey » Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:54 am

I suspect what you are running into is a limitation of your system. There is a big difference between a rendered (video format) show and an .exe - the .exe basically is a presenter plugin format that "plays" the files with instructions for what to do including transitions. Basically, in an exe, it has to process the images and transitions on the fly during playback and the bigger the images and the more motion/transitions that it has to process, the more likely you are to run into an inability for the processor to keep up with what is needed to provide smooth processing. This differs from a video format where the processor takes as long as it needs during rendering to create a single video stream with all the processing already done (it may take 30 minutes to render a show on your system that only takes my system 5 minutes to render for example - the resulting video would be the same and would play at the correct rate). Transitions, especially ones with motion, take LOTS of processing power and in an .exe file, that has to be done on the fly fast enough to keep up with the normal TV rate or you get jitters etc. (an exe file is a special format created by Photodex that basically contains the presenter utility and all the files for the show in an internal format, but NOT rendered, so this is what will get you, especially at higher resolutions). Several problems with .exe files to be aware of - they tend to work different on different systems (may work fine on yours, but not someone elses system) and many people these days (and rightly so) refuse to put an exe on their machines. A better format typically to distribute a show in is something like MP4, but there is no single "best" answer under all conditions.

As a simple test, lower the resolution of the show significantly - I expect you will find it then plays just fine.

mikey
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Re: How can I fix a jittery slideshow

Postby Triggaaar » Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:19 pm

Thank you for the reply, much appreciated.

My version on Proshow doesn't seem to allow MP4? I don't mind upgrading if I knew the results would be good.

I can do MP2 at 1080p. Should that be good enough, and should I use the maximum quality settings? (note, I am testing it, but it's going to take a couple of hours to render it)

Thanks

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Re: How can I fix a jittery slideshow

Postby gpsmikey » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:18 pm

Hmmm - I don't remember just which formats PSG supports come to think of it. You can look on the Photodex site for supported formats (I'd look, but I need to get a bunch of stuff done before we run off for the afternoon ). You can also download and install the latest as a trial version - just install to a separate directory instead of the default and you can run both versions.

Check this link http://kb.photodex.com/219/what-file-ty ... d-support/


mikey
You can't have too many gadgets or too much disk space !!
mikey (PSP6, Photoshop CS6, Vegas Pro 14, Acid 7, BluffTitler, Nikon D300s, D810)
Lots of PIC and Arduino microprocessor stuff too !!

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Re: How can I fix a jittery slideshow

Postby debngar » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:04 pm

gpsmikey wrote:...snip... You can look on the Photodex site for supported formats ...snip.... You can also download and install the latest as a trial version - just install to a separate directory instead of the default and you can run both versions.

Check this link http://kb.photodex.com/219/what-file-ty ... d-support/
mikey


Photodex website has been down for maintenance for a while today and is still down. Hopefully just normal routine maintenance. :|
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Re: How can I fix a jittery slideshow

Postby Triggaaar » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:45 pm

Thanks all for the replies, I appreciate it.

So I've created the show in MPEG 2 - no jitters, and the quality is perfect. And it's only just over 9GB! :lol:

So I probably need mp4. The support page says Proshow Gold includes mp4:
http://kb.photodex.com/219/what-file-ty ... d-support/
but it doesn't say which version you'd need for that.

I guess I should trial the latest version.

Failing that, what settings should I try with mp2, to help keep the file a more sensible size (I'd like it to fit on a DVD).

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Re: How can I fix a jittery slideshow

Postby gpsmikey » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:22 pm

Strange - when I went to verify that link (I had the link for Producer - had to look it up for Gold), the Photodex site worked just fine for me. I must have gotten in between their maintenance steps or something.

mikey
You can't have too many gadgets or too much disk space !!
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Re: How can I fix a jittery slideshow

Postby Triggaaar » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:37 am

So we shouldn't use an exe file for creating client slideshows.

So what should we use? (I guess I should post this in another forum, but while I'm here,,,)

I've downloaded a trial of PSG 6, and using create output > video file, there are dozens of options. The MPEG-4 > H.264 1080p option is disabled (needs a plug-in), but the AVI > MPEG-4 SP 1080P works, resulting in an avi file. The resulting avi file is 1.2GB. It wouldn't play with windows media player, I had to use VLC (not ideal with something for clients). The quality was fine, but fine isn't really what I'm after, having seen the beauty of a 9GB MPEG 2 file.

So (sorry to repeat) what files should we use for clients to view their slideshows on a PC?

PS - Yep, the Photodex site was up and down a couple of times yesterday.

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Re: How can I fix a jittery slideshow

Postby gpsmikey » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:11 am

I don't have a lot of experience working with clients, but from my limited experience, mp4 (or mov) is one of the most common formats that people can handle out there (including being able to put it on a flash drive and insert it into one of the newer TV's that can handle it direct). The mp4 files I have created are usually 720p and (at least in win7) windows media player handles them just fine (the are filename.mp4). I know in Producer, I need to purchase a plugin for some of the custom formats, but I don't know just what you need with Gold. The formats page for gold at http://kb.photodex.com/219/what-file-ty ... support/#1 indicates it needs a plugin for reading mp4, but is does not say that for the mp4 output format although it also does not indicate what resolutions it supports. Take a look through the manual for Gold and see what it says about mp4 output formats and what resolutions it supports. I have found that 720p looks quite good on HD tv's and still is small enough to be reasonable as well as having a low enough data rate to work with most USB drives.

Take a look at the manual for Gold if you don't have it ( http://files.photodex.com/docs/manuals/ProShowGold6.pdf ) and look at the section on video for web, devices and computers (I think that is the title). Custom formats do require a plugin, but I think you will also find that MP4 is supported down the publish section on web, devices and computers. There are several ways to get to a specific format in the publish menu and some of them require a plugin for custom formats, but others are supported.

mikey
You can't have too many gadgets or too much disk space !!
mikey (PSP6, Photoshop CS6, Vegas Pro 14, Acid 7, BluffTitler, Nikon D300s, D810)
Lots of PIC and Arduino microprocessor stuff too !!

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Re: How can I fix a jittery slideshow

Postby Triggaaar » Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:40 am

Thanks.

I found a really good description of all the formats here: http://wolfcrow.com/blog/understanding- ... and-h-265/

To make an mpeg-4 H.264, ProShow Gold would need a plugin. That's fine, happy to get that if it's the best output. But is it:
Since you can create h.264 with Producer without the need for a plugin, I've also downloaded a trial of producer. So with that I created my slideshow in mp4 h.264.
The result was a file that's 1.8GB, compared with my 9GB mpeg-2 file. And it's just as sharp.

But... (why does there always have to be a but?) when creating the mpeg-4 H.264 you get a total of 2 options. Normal quality, or high quality. The result of the high quality (I'm not testing normal) is over-saturated images, whereas the MPEG-2 slideshow (created from PS Gold) defaults to a saturation of 80% (and is adjustable) and the resulting slideshow is much more accurate.

This just doesn't seem right. The MPEG-2 option in Producer doesn't have a saturation option either. At the moment my best option seems to be to create MPEG-2 slideshows, and buy 16GB usb sticks for each client. But surely there should be a way of having decent quality mp4s.

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Re: How can I fix a jittery slideshow

Postby gpsmikey » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:05 am

Saturation is another one of those things like the "overscan" issue for TV's - the older TV's had as much as 10% overscan (the image was actually 10% bigger than the screen to avoid showing the non-linearity of the scans at the edges). Newer TV's (in general) don't have that issue (at least the flat panel ones). "Saturation" is another one that "it depends" - the older TV's (especially with red) blew their minds if you hit them with full red. The newer ones do much better these days (although NTSC still is an issue with the way it handles reds in particular). Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any rule that seems to apply all the time for everybody on color (this same discussion gets going over in the video forums periodically too). Part of it depends on how saturated your images are that you are using. What I have been doing is using 90% and most people have been happy with how things looked although mostly on flat screen TV's (I have finally decided to just go 16:9 these days). Hopefully some others here can give better info on the saturation ideas and what has worked best for them. Producer has many advantages over Gold (especially the keyframes although if you have not used keyframes before it will take a bit to get your head around them - they are very common in video and animation stuff). If you are considering purchasing Producer, be sure and check out their "loyalty" program for the discount. http://kb.photodex.com/234/do-i-qualify ... -discount/

mikey
You can't have too many gadgets or too much disk space !!
mikey (PSP6, Photoshop CS6, Vegas Pro 14, Acid 7, BluffTitler, Nikon D300s, D810)
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Re: How can I fix a jittery slideshow

Postby Triggaaar » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:20 am

Wow, thanks for the info on the loyalty program, that would be a huge help if I were to upgrade.

Re saturation:
I'm not even talking about TVs. I'm using lightroom on a calibrated monitor, and my images are as they should be. Using these images I create the slideshow, and play it using Windows Media Player (or VLC media player) on the same monitor, and the result is over saturated images. There's only 2 things that can be responsible for this: either WMP & VLC (as it happens on both) or ProShow. If WMP and VLC are causing the over-saturation, what can we use instead? And if all media players cause the problem, why don't ProShow let us desaturate the images to allow for it? It works well with ProShow Gold 4, and Mpeg-2 files.

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Re: How can I fix a jittery slideshow

Postby gpsmikey » Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:34 am

I have not run into any issues (although I do tend to like my colors more saturated), one thing that comes to mind when you are talking about a calibrated monitor and Lightroom - what colorspace are you using? I tend to just use sRGB, but I sort of remember issues in the past where people were using other colorspaces.

mikey
You can't have too many gadgets or too much disk space !!
mikey (PSP6, Photoshop CS6, Vegas Pro 14, Acid 7, BluffTitler, Nikon D300s, D810)
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Re: How can I fix a jittery slideshow

Postby Triggaaar » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:21 pm

Lightroom uses AdobeRGB until you output the file - for output, I'm using sRGB. And I know these are correct, as they're correct when I get them printed.

I've written an email to ProShow, to see what they suggest.

It seems strange that there used to be an option to reduce saturation, and that's now gone.

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