Human interface for modifiers

[VidQueen Profile Private messageWebsite]

I have to say that during my down time at the Conference in Austin (IN TWO WEEKS!!!!) I plan to sit in on some other classes...guess which ones?

Yep. Modifiers.

Those little buggers do make my nose twitch.

Jennifer

[cherub Profile Private messageWebsite]

I have to say that during my down time at the Conference in Austin (IN TWO WEEKS!!!!) I plan to sit in on some other classes...guess which ones?
Yep. Modifiers.
Those little buggers do make my nose twitch. Jennifer

And then make a tutorial please, so that we may all buy it !!
I'll be the first in line

[heckydog Profile Private message]

Modifiers in PSP are a lot like expressions in After Effects. Heck, they may even be exactly like expressions in AE. They essentially accomplish the same thing.

At least AE gives you a bunch of ready made expressions. And I find myself using some of the basic ones over and over. Things like looping between keyframes or the wiggle expression to add random motion to things like a camera or text.

And parenting one object to another. Parenting has to be one of the MOST basic and necessary functions to animating anything. And yet these modifiers do it in a very convoluted way compared to After Effects.

I think anyone who uses AE will know what I'm talking about. There's no reason for them to be so mysterious.

If Photodex is ever going to make "modifiers" (I hate that term) easily understandable they will have to revise their entire thinking on the subject. In the meantime, it would be very helpful if they could supply some basic modifiers for the things that people use most often. Like loops and wiggles to start.

Just a thought

Joe

[cherub Profile Private messageWebsite]

Joe,
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by a "looping modifier".
What does it do? Just play the effect over and over? or something else?

[BarbaraC Profile Private messageWebsite]

Joe, that's an interesting thought--supplying ready-to-use modifiers--but my initial thought on it is that a modifier is so dependent on the specifics in a layer that I can't imagine how it would be implemented. Of course, just because I can't imagine something doesn't mean it can't be done, and it certainly doesn't mean it wouldn't be welcomed by every last one of us.

In lieu of ready-mades, what I'd love to see is a separate manual on modifiers, one that takes us from rock-bottom basics right up into obscurities, going from Modifiers 101 to post-graduate work. The darned things both fascinate and mystify.

Barbara

[VidQueen Profile Private messageWebsite]

Joe,

I use After Effects and Modifiers are not quite like Expressions. Modifiers are, lets say, a local pilot who's had a few months of flying experience and Expressions have already been to the moon and back. I can clearly see where Modifiers want to be, but they just don't have the experience yet.

I am learning (slooooowly) that comparing Producer to After Effects is extremely unfair. I would be in 7th Heaven if Producer behaved more like After Effects....but....then Producer would cost $1,000....and no one would be happy with that!

@ Mona....you crack me up!!! I thought for sure that you were the most experienced Modifier user we have! I figured I would have to take lessons from you!

On that note...I'm most interested in using Modifiers as a Parenting tool...but, as Joe said, it's done in a very "convoluted" way that I almost have to strip myself of everything I already know about Parenting and start from scratch. And (pssstt...Photodex) to really utilize Parenting, we would have to be able to see objects when they are outside the preview window (anther AE feature that would probably raise the price of Producer up a notch or two).

As for my own experience, the main reason I tend to stay away from Modifiers is because I can't predict the outcome with 100% accuracy. I can do this with Keyframing, but not Modifiers.

Just my....what....87cents?!

Jennifer

[heckydog Profile Private message]

Joe,
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by a "looping modifier".
What does it do? Just play the effect over and over? or something else?

A loop can be anything that completes an action between keyframes. The Halloween cats eyes for example is just a continuous loop of the eyes moving left and right. A flashing Christmas light or a pendulum or a ball rotation are just continuous loops.

Two or three keyframes can be enough to describe a repeating action. If you had a preset where all you needed to enter was the cycle time (times per second) and amplitude (fast, medium, slow, instant) it would make life a lot easier. Maybe the option to enter a range of keyframes too.

If you narrow down the actual actions being done you may find there isn't really a lot of variation. There's always exceptions of course, but I'm just thinking in general terms. Heck, now you can make your own transitions. If modifiers could be made and sold, I know several people here would have a field day with it.

Joe

[debngar Profile Private message]

-snip- Heck, now you can make your own transitions. If modifiers could be made and sold, I know several people here would have a field day with it.

Joe

I think that you're definitely onto something Joe. I've been able to do a few things with modifiers. To me, it can get quickly complicated because they are so buried. Booboos are not obvious to find and fix if something isn't right and if there are more than one or two in a layer or slide as Barbara mentioned related to layer specifics.

Having the ability to buy or know settings to make something work and where to put it is what might help. The missing piece for me i think mostly is to know where to put them. Multiple layered modifiers twist me into a modifier pretzel! LOL

[cherub Profile Private messageWebsite]

Joe,
Ok, so you do mean continuous motion. I thought so, but I wanted to make sure.
The things that you described above are there in Producer, but, as you said, they can be reached in the most convoluted ways. It's very hard to reach the optimum levels for a certain effect, and it takes lots of work (and time).
And, they are for ranges of keyframes, but again, quite complicated to combine them.

The products that I make do include modifiers, and people can copy the values that I use, to other similar motions.
The "loops" as you called them, are the easiest part of the modifiers.
It's the relationships between layers and the math calculations that are needed in order to connect them, that drive me crazy. These values are usually dependent on the size of the object (layer) and its initial position on screen. They are not "generic".
So, I don't really know how to make modifiers that can be used with just about anything that moves.

[VidQueen Profile Private messageWebsite]

A loop can be anything that completes an action between keyframes.... A flashing Christmas light or a pendulum or a ball rotation are just continuous loops.

You've just covered my extensive use of Modifiers My Christmas Lights were done using a Modifier. Thaaaaaat's about it from me at this point!

Jennifer

[heckydog Profile Private message]

Joe,

I use After Effects and Modifiers are not quite like Expressions. Modifiers are, lets say, a local pilot who's had a few months of flying experience and Expressions have already been to the moon and back. I can clearly see where Modifiers want to be, but they just don't have the experience yet.

I am learning (slooooowly) that comparing Producer to After Effects is extremely unfair. I would be in 7th Heaven if Producer behaved more like After Effects....but....then Producer would cost $1,000....and no one would be happy with that!

@ Mona....you crack me up!!! I thought for sure that you were the most experienced Modifier user we have! I figured I would have to take lessons from you!

On that note...I'm most interested in using Modifiers as a Parenting tool...but, as Joe said, it's done in a very "convoluted" way that I almost have to strip myself of everything I already know about Parenting and start from scratch. And (pssstt...Photodex) to really utilize Parenting, we would have to be able to see objects when they are outside the preview window (anther AE feature that would probably raise the price of Producer up a notch or two).

As for my own experience, the main reason I tend to stay away from Modifiers is because I can't predict the outcome with 100% accuracy. I can do this with Keyframing, but not Modifiers.

Just my....what....87cents?!

Jennifer

Jennifer,

I'm not trying to compare the two products, they are different animals altogether. My main point is that Photodex doesn't do these things in an intuitive manner as compared to AE. You use AE yourself and you agree with me that the way parenting is done in PSP is not very good but it's such an essential thing to have it should be easier to implement.

If they are going to do it, they should do it right. Very few people here, including me, get along well with modifiers. What kind of "feature" is that?

[cherub Profile Private messageWebsite]

Jen,
You could have used the modifiers that I made for "Holiday Lights" posted by me last year, in the Members Created Files.

[Robert Barnett]

debngar, are you just stupid or something? I mean really. Didn't read my posts.

1. I ask for permission to post the video.
2. Since they own it they can grant that permission.
3. Nothing was stolen because I didn't post the video. They didn't give permission.
4. I then asked them to post the video to their site. Again nothing stolen it is there property they can post it.

So again are you just stupid or is English not your first language.

For gawd sakes read what has been posted and if you don't comprehend it then keep your mouth shut about it.

BTW Site owner/moderator feel free to remove my account.

robert

[VidQueen Profile Private messageWebsite]

Jen,
You could have used the modifiers that I made for "Holiday Lights" posted by me last year, in the Members Created Files.

LOL!!!! Ok....that's just funny. I am SO behind the curve when it comes to Modifiers. That's why I'll be taking notes in Austin. I will definitely post a tutorial about it when I get back (free, of course)

@Robert....really unnecessary.

Jennifer

[debngar Profile Private message]

debngar, are you just stupid or something? I mean really. Didn't read my posts.

1. I ask for permission to post the video.
2. Since they own it they can grant that permission.
3. Nothing was stolen because I didn't post the video. They didn't give permission.
4. I then asked them to post the video to their site. Again nothing stolen it is there property they can post it.

So again are you just stupid or is English not your first language.

For gawd sakes read what has been posted and if you don't comprehend it then keep your mouth shut about it.

BTW Site owner/moderator feel free to remove my account.

robert

Um..... Seems like I've read enough at this point to get the hint where you are coming from.Can you point out to me where I said you stole anything? I understand you said you asked permission. I was simply stating facts about copyright infringement laws and why maybe they are saying "no'.

I can understand them not wanting it posted to someone else's site. However, since the classes are gone and in all likely hood they video files will in a year or so be deleted I see no reason why they couldn't post the modifier video to their own site. Either that or they need to do better on their user's manual. Personally I think this is quite petty of them and in a big way.

As for those that paid, they got what they paid for. No place did it say that the videos were exclusive to the classes. There is not a single reason for them not putting the video out there other then being petty.

Robert

If I was Photodex and saw someone badmouthing the company to twist their arm into doing something they didn't want to do, I might not want to cooperate with that person either. They must have their reasons regardless of whether someone thinks it's petty or not.

I have to say that I am quite disappointed.

It sounds to me like you are disappointed/upset/whatever that Photodex has decided to not post it on their site and not give you permission to you to use their material on your own personal business website.

I see no reason to bad mouth them for their business decision.

It is petty and honestly pretty lame of you to try to equate a simple video to a $20,000 car or a several hundred dollar software program. I video I might add that has zero value to anyone other than those that paid the big $ for Producer.

Wow..

I have a lot of picture files that are just sitting on my computer that someone might benefit/enjoy having as well for free. But being the copyright owner, I have the right to not put them online or give people permission to use/view/whatever and there is no shame in that. If someone doesn't like that I choose to run my business that way, too bad. I don't feel guilty about that one bit. If it makes you feel better to call that petty and lame in that case, fine, I don't care.