New camera settings ?
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New camera settings ?
by gus607 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:15 am
Can anyone offer advice please ?
Just got an early Christmas present, a Nikon D90. Looking for best menu set up suggestions if any one could advise.
Many thanks, gus.
Just got an early Christmas present, a Nikon D90. Looking for best menu set up suggestions if any one could advise.
Many thanks, gus.
- dnmilikan
Re: New camera settings ?
by dnmilikan » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:52 pm
I would set the color space to Adobe RGB 1998...not Adobe S RGB which is probably the camera's default setting. This provides a greater color gamut.
I have been shooting aperture priority for almost thirty years. It is a good system because one learns to consider depth of field by using that method. I don't shoot automatic or program ever, for anything.
Set your iso consistant with the lighting conditions...100 for bright light and higher for dimmer conditions. A good rule of thumb is to check the shutter speed for the chosen aperture and keep your shutter speed at no slower than 1 over the focal length of the lens for hand held shots.
Since I don't use Nikon I am not sure but if you can choose your metering. If you can choose then center weighted evaluative works well for me.
Shoot in RAW and process as either Tiff or PSB. This gives larger file sizes but does not shed information via compression as shooting in Jpeg does.
Good luck and enjoy your new camera.
Best wishes,
Don
I have been shooting aperture priority for almost thirty years. It is a good system because one learns to consider depth of field by using that method. I don't shoot automatic or program ever, for anything.
Set your iso consistant with the lighting conditions...100 for bright light and higher for dimmer conditions. A good rule of thumb is to check the shutter speed for the chosen aperture and keep your shutter speed at no slower than 1 over the focal length of the lens for hand held shots.
Since I don't use Nikon I am not sure but if you can choose your metering. If you can choose then center weighted evaluative works well for me.
Shoot in RAW and process as either Tiff or PSB. This gives larger file sizes but does not shed information via compression as shooting in Jpeg does.
Good luck and enjoy your new camera.
Best wishes,
Don
Re: New camera settings ?
by im42n8 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:07 pm
I take it you have no DLSR experience? If so ...
It's going to take you a bit of time then to get used to what your camera can or can't do. I'd review some of the forum discussions related to RAW vs TIFF/JPG. (I'd set your camera up for RAW only....personally. You can then convert the files you want to TIFF or JPG for your use later and/or for archive. Once you decide the files you want to keep anyway). You might want to play with the RAW vs jpg/tif photos and compare what they do (Go to DPReview and check out what they might have to say about your camera and about RAW images). I like RAW because I can create a lot of corrections BEFORE I commit to a particular photo (like cleaning it up for spots, saturation, white balance, exposure, etc).
WRT Auto settings or the other settings, I'd say you might want to use the auto settings until you get used to the camera and what it can do. Then, as you get more comfortable, start playing with aperture and/or shutter priority settings. Then, go for the manual settings.
For your metering, you might want to use center weighted until you get used to your camera and then go to the averaging or another setting. Focus setting should be centered also until you figure out how you want to use it (you can have the focus be an average to or on a specific point in the view ... which may or may not be in the exact center).
You might set it up to use the sRGB color space since most systems (inkjet printers for instance) use it or the Adobe RGB (because it has a wider color spectrum than the sRGB color space...I'd use this setting personally).
WRT your ASA (or ISO), I'd go auto for now (with a range of perhaps 100 to 400). You can play with specific settings of ISO later.
That's pretty top level stuff for now!
Congrats on the new toy! Have fun!
Dale
It's going to take you a bit of time then to get used to what your camera can or can't do. I'd review some of the forum discussions related to RAW vs TIFF/JPG. (I'd set your camera up for RAW only....personally. You can then convert the files you want to TIFF or JPG for your use later and/or for archive. Once you decide the files you want to keep anyway). You might want to play with the RAW vs jpg/tif photos and compare what they do (Go to DPReview and check out what they might have to say about your camera and about RAW images). I like RAW because I can create a lot of corrections BEFORE I commit to a particular photo (like cleaning it up for spots, saturation, white balance, exposure, etc).
WRT Auto settings or the other settings, I'd say you might want to use the auto settings until you get used to the camera and what it can do. Then, as you get more comfortable, start playing with aperture and/or shutter priority settings. Then, go for the manual settings.
For your metering, you might want to use center weighted until you get used to your camera and then go to the averaging or another setting. Focus setting should be centered also until you figure out how you want to use it (you can have the focus be an average to or on a specific point in the view ... which may or may not be in the exact center).
You might set it up to use the sRGB color space since most systems (inkjet printers for instance) use it or the Adobe RGB (because it has a wider color spectrum than the sRGB color space...I'd use this setting personally).
WRT your ASA (or ISO), I'd go auto for now (with a range of perhaps 100 to 400). You can play with specific settings of ISO later.
That's pretty top level stuff for now!
Congrats on the new toy! Have fun!
Dale
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Re: New camera settings ?
by stickgirl » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:51 pm
Gus - Ken Rockwell has a plain English User's Guide for the D90 along with some other interesting articles.
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech.htm
Hope it helps!
Kathy
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech.htm
Hope it helps!
Kathy
- Codebreaker
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Re: New camera settings ?
by Codebreaker » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:04 am
My 2p worth 
While its true AdobeRGB offers a wider colour space than sRGB ( not more colours), unless you have a high end display or printer that can also work in this colour space - and your conversant with the nuances of colour management, I'd recommend staying with sRGB. Especially if you use programs that are not colour managed.
RAW files offer a greater degree of freedom in that you get to process the image the way you want rather than have the camera process it and give you a JPEG. Quality wise its technically the best - although a good JPEG can be hard to differentiate. The biggest obstacle in using RAW is that you need to spend more time in front of the computer to process the images. In this respect if your new to your camera I'd recommend staying with JPEGS until you've mastered all the controls.
Personally, I use the Av program with Evaluative metering about 95% of the time.
With all the focusing points available on the camera I've never used anything but the centre point. Its just too fiddly to me to have to select an off centre point. So I use the centre focus-reframe method. You need to be a little careful as it can throw out the exposure sometimes.
What ever you do when playing make sure you only change one thing at a time otherwise its hard to tell what did what to the image. Take a look at the Exif data of the image - it will give you an indication of the settings you used.
Good luck and have fun.
Colin
While its true AdobeRGB offers a wider colour space than sRGB ( not more colours), unless you have a high end display or printer that can also work in this colour space - and your conversant with the nuances of colour management, I'd recommend staying with sRGB. Especially if you use programs that are not colour managed.
RAW files offer a greater degree of freedom in that you get to process the image the way you want rather than have the camera process it and give you a JPEG. Quality wise its technically the best - although a good JPEG can be hard to differentiate. The biggest obstacle in using RAW is that you need to spend more time in front of the computer to process the images. In this respect if your new to your camera I'd recommend staying with JPEGS until you've mastered all the controls.
Personally, I use the Av program with Evaluative metering about 95% of the time.
With all the focusing points available on the camera I've never used anything but the centre point. Its just too fiddly to me to have to select an off centre point. So I use the centre focus-reframe method. You need to be a little careful as it can throw out the exposure sometimes.
What ever you do when playing make sure you only change one thing at a time otherwise its hard to tell what did what to the image. Take a look at the Exif data of the image - it will give you an indication of the settings you used.
Good luck and have fun.
Colin
Re: New camera settings ?
by im42n8 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:31 am
By definition, a wider color space means more colors. In the case of Adobe RGB vs sRGB it means a richer variety of Cyans and Greens (that is, colors not available ... not possible ... in sRGB). This might not mean much to many people because these folks won't recognize the richer colors of Adobe RGB ... and the sRGB would work just fine.
The Adobe RGB color space was developed to obtain the same colors as an CMYK printer while using only the colors available in RGB devices (such as your monitor ... a device that typically works only in the RGB).
If you try to print an image that's using the Adobe RGB color space to a device that's using the sRGB color space, you might note that the colors are not quite as vibrant as you remember seeing them. However, you can convert the color space first to sRGB (using your photo editor) before printing... and that might mitigate some of the loss of saturation.
Like Colin said, unless you're using a device capable of translating the Adobe RGB color space accordingly (a somewhat high end printer for instance), you might not be gaining much by using it.
Relative to RAW files, that's a decision you'll work into. However, I still think it best to start using RAW now and learn how to process them (if it's necessary) and then export them to your archive format (JPG or TIFF) before getting rid of your RAW images (unless you archive them as well). If you plan on taking a number of images of the course of the years, best invest in a Photo Management solution now (Lightroom, ACDSee Photo Pro, etc). Your handling of RAW images becomes SIMPLE (such as taking care of under/over exposure, color tone, white balance corrections, etc). And you're not beholding to what the camera does to the image during its processing to achieve the JPG image.
I know that I tried both and settled on the RAW approach. I was able to correct some of my mistakes easily. Had those same images been in JPG I'd have lost a number of images! (well, they'd have been useless to me!)
ONE FINAL NOTE: there are a lot of pros and cons by the so-called "experts" on the relative benefits of RAW vs JPG storage. Professional Photographers of all ilks use one or the other for their personal reasons ... and are passionate about their position.
Experiment and have fun!
Dale
The Adobe RGB color space was developed to obtain the same colors as an CMYK printer while using only the colors available in RGB devices (such as your monitor ... a device that typically works only in the RGB).
If you try to print an image that's using the Adobe RGB color space to a device that's using the sRGB color space, you might note that the colors are not quite as vibrant as you remember seeing them. However, you can convert the color space first to sRGB (using your photo editor) before printing... and that might mitigate some of the loss of saturation.
Like Colin said, unless you're using a device capable of translating the Adobe RGB color space accordingly (a somewhat high end printer for instance), you might not be gaining much by using it.
Relative to RAW files, that's a decision you'll work into. However, I still think it best to start using RAW now and learn how to process them (if it's necessary) and then export them to your archive format (JPG or TIFF) before getting rid of your RAW images (unless you archive them as well). If you plan on taking a number of images of the course of the years, best invest in a Photo Management solution now (Lightroom, ACDSee Photo Pro, etc). Your handling of RAW images becomes SIMPLE (such as taking care of under/over exposure, color tone, white balance corrections, etc). And you're not beholding to what the camera does to the image during its processing to achieve the JPG image.
I know that I tried both and settled on the RAW approach. I was able to correct some of my mistakes easily. Had those same images been in JPG I'd have lost a number of images! (well, they'd have been useless to me!)
ONE FINAL NOTE: there are a lot of pros and cons by the so-called "experts" on the relative benefits of RAW vs JPG storage. Professional Photographers of all ilks use one or the other for their personal reasons ... and are passionate about their position.
Experiment and have fun!
Dale
Re: New camera settings ?
by gus607 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:22 am
Don, Dale, Kathy & Colin, many thanks for your help & advice, I now have a lot more to work on.
Have just upgraded from a Nikon D40 but never tried "Raw" or experimented much with the camera settings, usually only used "P" mode.
Not had time yet to try the new camera out due to work commitments but hopefully will have a play this weekend !
Incidentally, this D90 is an early Christmas present from my wife !!
Again, many thanks to you all, Mike. (gus).
Seasons greetings !
Have just upgraded from a Nikon D40 but never tried "Raw" or experimented much with the camera settings, usually only used "P" mode.
Not had time yet to try the new camera out due to work commitments but hopefully will have a play this weekend !
Incidentally, this D90 is an early Christmas present from my wife !!
Again, many thanks to you all, Mike. (gus).
Seasons greetings !
- Codebreaker
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Re: New camera settings ?
by Codebreaker » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:42 am
Dale....
Sorry to disagree but AdobeRGB does not contain anymore colours than any other colour space. It is the range of colours that are different. Desktop printers although they may give the appearance of being CMYK printers still require data in the RGB format....neither of which are a colour space. Printers have unique colour spaces dependent on printer, paper and ink, and while many claim to be capable of using the AdobeRGB colour space they usually don't encompass all the colours in that range. In fact while some will be capable of reproducing colours outside the sRGB range they can also fail to produce some colours within that range.
Using suitable colour management practises can make very acceptable prints from AdobeRGB but you need a Colour Managed program or printer driver to be able to do that, plus and understanding of all the settings required.
Screens - unless you have a high end display will be similar to the sRGB colour range. AdobeRGB images viewed with something like Internet Explorer will look very flat. Proshow Gold will have the same problem but Producer will not.
This is why I recommend staying with sRBG until an understanding of Colour Management practises is aquired. It will lead to less uncertainty that something is wrong with the original image.
Colin
Sorry to disagree but AdobeRGB does not contain anymore colours than any other colour space. It is the range of colours that are different. Desktop printers although they may give the appearance of being CMYK printers still require data in the RGB format....neither of which are a colour space. Printers have unique colour spaces dependent on printer, paper and ink, and while many claim to be capable of using the AdobeRGB colour space they usually don't encompass all the colours in that range. In fact while some will be capable of reproducing colours outside the sRGB range they can also fail to produce some colours within that range.
Using suitable colour management practises can make very acceptable prints from AdobeRGB but you need a Colour Managed program or printer driver to be able to do that, plus and understanding of all the settings required.
Screens - unless you have a high end display will be similar to the sRGB colour range. AdobeRGB images viewed with something like Internet Explorer will look very flat. Proshow Gold will have the same problem but Producer will not.
This is why I recommend staying with sRBG until an understanding of Colour Management practises is aquired. It will lead to less uncertainty that something is wrong with the original image.
Colin
Re: New camera settings ?
by gpsmikey » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:34 pm
you might want to check out the excellent guides from "bythom" on the camera - it takes the users manual to a whole new level and actually explains stuff etc. I have it for the D-70s and it is very well done. http://www.bythom.com/
Depending on what you are using it for, you might also read up on the autofocus settings. At least on the D-70s, the default is single autofocus, closest object -- this means when you depress the shutter release part way, it focuses on the nearest object in one of the 5 focus "zones". This is fine for stationary objects -- I shoot lots of pix of my daughters soccer and moving animals so I have mine set (in the menu) to "continuous autofocus" (so it tracks the object as long as the shutter release is part way depressed) and locked on the center focus "zone" so it is focused on the kid I want the picture of - otherwise it always seems to find something closer that was not what I wanted. These are just the settings I like for action stuff. The guideline of 1/focal_length_of_lense for a shutter speed is a good BOTTOM setting guideline. Trick is to balance the "stop action" against the "depth of field" you want for the picture - I tend to shoot aperature priority and adjust the aperature for the conditions to try and keep the shutter speed above 1/1000.
mikey
Depending on what you are using it for, you might also read up on the autofocus settings. At least on the D-70s, the default is single autofocus, closest object -- this means when you depress the shutter release part way, it focuses on the nearest object in one of the 5 focus "zones". This is fine for stationary objects -- I shoot lots of pix of my daughters soccer and moving animals so I have mine set (in the menu) to "continuous autofocus" (so it tracks the object as long as the shutter release is part way depressed) and locked on the center focus "zone" so it is focused on the kid I want the picture of - otherwise it always seems to find something closer that was not what I wanted. These are just the settings I like for action stuff. The guideline of 1/focal_length_of_lense for a shutter speed is a good BOTTOM setting guideline. Trick is to balance the "stop action" against the "depth of field" you want for the picture - I tend to shoot aperature priority and adjust the aperature for the conditions to try and keep the shutter speed above 1/1000.
mikey
You can't have too many gadgets or too much disk space !!
mikey (PSP6, Photoshop CS6, Vegas Pro 14, Acid 7, BluffTitler, Nikon D300s, D810)
Lots of PIC and Arduino microprocessor stuff too !!
mikey (PSP6, Photoshop CS6, Vegas Pro 14, Acid 7, BluffTitler, Nikon D300s, D810)
Lots of PIC and Arduino microprocessor stuff too !!
Re: New camera settings ?
by gus607 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:51 pm
gpsmikey wrote:you might want to check out the excellent guides from "bythom" on the camera - it takes the users manual to a whole new level and actually explains stuff etc. I have it for the D-70s and it is very well done. http://www.bythom.com/
Depending on what you are using it for, you might also read up on the autofocus settings. At least on the D-70s, the default is single autofocus, closest object -- this means when you depress the shutter release part way, it focuses on the nearest object in one of the 5 focus "zones". This is fine for stationary objects -- I shoot lots of pix of my daughters soccer and moving animals so I have mine set (in the menu) to "continuous autofocus" (so it tracks the object as long as the shutter release is part way depressed) and locked on the center focus "zone" so it is focused on the kid I want the picture of - otherwise it always seems to find something closer that was not what I wanted. These are just the settings I like for action stuff. The guideline of 1/focal_length_of_lense for a shutter speed is a good BOTTOM setting guideline. Trick is to balance the "stop action" against the "depth of field" you want for the picture - I tend to shoot aperature priority and adjust the aperature for the conditions to try and keep the shutter speed above 1/1000.
mikey
Many thanks mikey.
Re: New camera settings ?
by im42n8 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:47 pm
I suppose we can agree to disagree. See this: http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutori ... GB1998.htm
It's not an opinion. It's a fact: the color gamut for sRGB is smaller than that of either Adobe RGB, CMYK, LAB, or ProPhoto.
If the sRGB doesn't have a color gamut that's as wide as Adobe RGB (or the others) then that means it doesn't have the color spectrum either. Since Adobe RGB has more saturated colors in the Cyan and Green regions it means that sRGB cannot replicate the colors in that region. Therefore, sRGB has fewer color choices than Adobe RGB.
That said, your monitor can't show many more colors than the sRGB color space. Same thing for printers. Since they're typically an RGB color space device (except for RIP devices ... which are probably CMYK) they can't typically render colors beyond the sRGB color space.
Dale
It's not an opinion. It's a fact: the color gamut for sRGB is smaller than that of either Adobe RGB, CMYK, LAB, or ProPhoto.
If the sRGB doesn't have a color gamut that's as wide as Adobe RGB (or the others) then that means it doesn't have the color spectrum either. Since Adobe RGB has more saturated colors in the Cyan and Green regions it means that sRGB cannot replicate the colors in that region. Therefore, sRGB has fewer color choices than Adobe RGB.
That said, your monitor can't show many more colors than the sRGB color space. Same thing for printers. Since they're typically an RGB color space device (except for RIP devices ... which are probably CMYK) they can't typically render colors beyond the sRGB color space.
Dale
- Codebreaker
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Re: New camera settings ?
by Codebreaker » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:39 am
Dale....
I don't disagree that the gamut is different between colour spaces - that is a fact. However, the usual misconception - and I'm not suggesting this applies to you - is that a wider gamut has more colours; it doesn't.
The number of colours in an image is determined by the bit depth of each channel. For a JPEG file each channel R, G, B has 8 bits resulting in 24bits to represent a colour....i.e 2^24 or over 16.7m colours. This is independent of the colour space. What the colour profile does is determine what number means which colour in the colour space. So all colour spaces have the same number of colours but the actual numbers in different spaces mean different colours.
For instance in the Prophoto Colour Space a particular Blue colour is represented by the numbers 76,108,145. For my display to show the same colour it has to use the number 0,132,165. If it uses the Prophoto numbers directly (not colour managed) the Blue is very different.
Its because the same number can mean a different colour to different devices that causes people problems when they start out. Many commercial print shops - such as those in the stores and on-line - do not perform colour management and assume the image is sRGB. When people send along an AdobeRGB image it may print out wrong.
Colin
I don't disagree that the gamut is different between colour spaces - that is a fact. However, the usual misconception - and I'm not suggesting this applies to you - is that a wider gamut has more colours; it doesn't.
The number of colours in an image is determined by the bit depth of each channel. For a JPEG file each channel R, G, B has 8 bits resulting in 24bits to represent a colour....i.e 2^24 or over 16.7m colours. This is independent of the colour space. What the colour profile does is determine what number means which colour in the colour space. So all colour spaces have the same number of colours but the actual numbers in different spaces mean different colours.
For instance in the Prophoto Colour Space a particular Blue colour is represented by the numbers 76,108,145. For my display to show the same colour it has to use the number 0,132,165. If it uses the Prophoto numbers directly (not colour managed) the Blue is very different.
Its because the same number can mean a different colour to different devices that causes people problems when they start out. Many commercial print shops - such as those in the stores and on-line - do not perform colour management and assume the image is sRGB. When people send along an AdobeRGB image it may print out wrong.
Colin
Re: New camera settings ?
by Ron » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:09 pm
Hey Gus
I just wanted to to know if your wife is looking to adopt a new son. lol
What a great present!
Don't let Dale & Colin scare you...lol
Was taught take it one picture / one setting at a time.
Happy Holidays
Ron
At least wait for Xmas eve next year b4 opening
I just wanted to to know if your wife is looking to adopt a new son. lol
What a great present!
Don't let Dale & Colin scare you...lol
Was taught take it one picture / one setting at a time.
Happy Holidays
Ron
At least wait for Xmas eve next year b4 opening
"Family over Friends" "Night over Day" "Nikon over Canon" "Gravy over Everything"
Re: New camera settings ?
by gus607 » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:34 am
richichi wrote:Hey Gus
I just wanted to to know if your wife is looking to adopt a new son. lol
What a great present!
Don't let Dale & Colin scare you...lol
Was taught take it one picture / one setting at a time.
Happy Holidays
Ron
At least wait for Xmas eve next year b4 opening
Hi Ron, thanks for the reply, No not looking for anymore son's, one is enough !!
Seasons greetings, Mike (gus).
- Jim Adams
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Re: New camera settings ?
by Jim Adams » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:02 pm
Gus,
Ask and you shall receive. Too much technical info that's way over your head will only confuse you and destroy the joy of your new camera.
I shoot RAW, manual mode and use the histogram to determine exposure. My wife shoots JPEG, Program mode and has never seen a histogram. Her photos are just as good as mine because she is not overwhelmed with technique and can concentrate on what really makes a photo excellent. Lighting, composition and timing.
A good photographer can still take great images with a point and shoot.
Concentrate on the basics and learn the technical stuff one item at a time. Happy shooting.
Jim
Ask and you shall receive. Too much technical info that's way over your head will only confuse you and destroy the joy of your new camera.
I shoot RAW, manual mode and use the histogram to determine exposure. My wife shoots JPEG, Program mode and has never seen a histogram. Her photos are just as good as mine because she is not overwhelmed with technique and can concentrate on what really makes a photo excellent. Lighting, composition and timing.
A good photographer can still take great images with a point and shoot.
Concentrate on the basics and learn the technical stuff one item at a time. Happy shooting.
Jim
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