Camera question

[czali Profile Private message]

I am considering a DSLR for Christmas and would like your thoughts. I've narrowed it down to either the Nikon D40, D40x or the Canon Rebel XT, XTi. As most of you know, I am not a photographer but have always had interest in the subject. This would be for general personal use but would like the features/flexibility as I develop a new hobby. Is the $100 difference worth the increase in megapixels?

Thanks in advance,

Colleen

[ToledoSteve]

Colleen,

Your question is a common, but good one. The megapixel is not the only thing (and maybe not even the main thing) for comparison. There may be additional features such as sensor cleaning, larger LCD, less noise at higher ISO's etc.

The other school says to go with the entry level and spend the extra money on extra glass. If you can do both, great. If I had to make the choice, I would go for the higher quality lens than the standard kit lens. Your pictures will be better for it.

Steve - Toledo

[gpsmikey Profile Private message]

Welllllll - this is almost as easy to answer as "what is the best DVD"
There have been a number of threads where this has been discussed - see
if the following are helpful in your quest:
http://www.proshowenthusiasts.com/viewtopic.php?p=37109
http://www.proshowenthusiasts.com/viewtopic.php?p=37082
http://www.proshowenthusiasts.com/viewtopic.php?t=5036

I have the Nikon D70s which I believe has been replaced mostly
by the D80. Both Nikon and Canon (as well as some others) build
some good cameras and part of it is simply knowing how you are
going to use it. I do quite a bit of sports stuff with the kids soccer
teams and the swim team. The D40 is a nice camera, but has (or
rather has NOT) 1 feature that is important to me - it does not have
a focus motor for use with lenses that don't have their own focus
motor. While this makes the camera significantly cheaper, it does
cut down on your selection of available lenses for it (I use a Sigma
70-300 DG Macro which was only about $200 - doesn't work with the
D40 - you need the Nikon lenses.). On the other hand, if you are
happy with the lenses that come with a number of the D40 packages
available, they it may be the ideal camera for you. Others will swear
by the Canon (Hi Debbie ). It is also an excellent camera.

The best advice I can give is look over what is available in your price
range. Read the reviews and reports at places like DPReview. Make
lots of notes -- during the search, you will undoubtedly come across
comments from others about particular cameras that you realize are
important to you for some reason or another. Everybody has a
different set of "features" that are important to them be it number of
frames per second, which format card it uses (some people really want
SD for example because they already have some for something else) or
some feature of the autofocus (like manual over ride or being able to
lock on one particular focus sensor or mode). This was the process
I went through. I did discover a number of things that were
important to me that some had and some didn't (I have been shooting
film for years).

Good luck in your quest !!

mikey

[pwholmes Profile Private message]

I've been looking at the Canon XTi also. Tested it at a local photo shop here in Minneapolis and learned about the different size sensors. The consumer cameras, like my Canon S5 have a sensor (or CMOS) chip about 1/4th the size of the cheapest DSLR camera's sensor. So it takes 4 times as much light to get the same exposure in my camera as in the XTi. This bore itself out when I did a couple test shots at ISO 800 with the XTi and realized it had less grain than shots taken at ISO 200 in my current camera. Since a lot of my photography is indoors this is very important to me. Using a flash works but it also tends to produce that deer-in-the-headlights look.

I was even more taken with the new Sony Alpha 700 which allows you to take similar shots at ISO 1600 with better quality than 200 in my current camera. Of course the Alpha is about $1400 without a lens, twice the cost of the XTi with it's kit lens. But the Alpha has in-camera picture stabilization whereas the Canon XTi does not. You have to buy an expensive lens with it built-in.

I've also heard that you can do much better noise correction and sharpening to raw images than to jpegs.

Paul Holmes

[Davesconnect]

Hey Colleen

I don't think you can go wrong with either Nikon of Canon. Both are very good cameras. I have the Nikon D70 and love it, taken over 50,000 images with it.

Over the four years that I have had it I have found that good lenses make it so much easier to get good images. So check out what lense comes with it. You won't look back once you have a DSLR.

Blessings
Dave

[bdog]

Colleen,

Good advice on this thread. Work backward. Budget. Subject. These will drive your end result.

Specs are one thing. Cameras are a tool. Go and hold one. See what is comfortable in your hand.

There are HUGE debates over Canon or Nikon. It goes back and forth. If I had the $ I would get both platforms (but that is another story).

I'm with Dave. Any of those will be fine. But get good glass.

Me, I would spend the extra $ on a good lens. You will most likely buy a better body later and still be able to use the glass.

dp has a good comparison site:
http://tinyurl.com/2wvkam


another idea is to look at a used d200 as the new d300 hits the market... be very careful with used gear...

bdog

[czali Profile Private message]

Thank you to everyone for you insight. You gave me some things to think about that I may not have. I had not considered going and holding it in my hands to see how it feels. I will let you guys know when I make my decision.

Thanks again,

Colleen

[gpsmikey Profile Private message]

Good point - I had forgotten to mention that - for me I like the D70 because it
fits my big hands well. Others with smaller hands like the D40 for example.

mikey

[Marty Profile Private message]

I had the same decision a couple of years ago.
Canon vs. Nikon vs ???

Keep in mind, you're buying more than a camera. You are buying into a "system."
Once you buy a good camera, then comes the "need" for additional glass, flash(s), and other goodies to help you towards the brink of bankruptcy.

So, before buying a camera, I joined the forums at DPreview and read what users had to say and looked at lots of pictures taken by the models I was considering.

I ended up with a Canon Rebel (found the best price at Costco) and don't regret my decision.

Good luck with your search!

[srq102 Profile Private message]

Hi Collen,

Another point you might consider if you get the Nikon D200. If you get one of the longer lenses with it like the 70-200 or 55 -70 at certain focal points the built in pop up flash will cause a shadow on you photos or rather because of the length of the lens the barrel of the lens gets in front of the flash, so for that reason I had to get an external flash the Nikon sb-800. I own the d200 it is great and is weather sealed so you don't have to worry about the humidity as much. You can set it to full auto and it is fabulous or you can set it for aperture or shutter priority or set it for complete manual settings. One of the great things about the d200 is that you can shoot in RAW format which means you can adjust all of the camera settings, white balance, exposure, sharpening, tone, saturation, etc via a RAW editor like Nikon capture NX or Adobe photoshops CS 3 Raw editor. The only thing you can't adjust from the internal camera settings after you have taken the photo is the ISO.

Since the D300 came out you should see a price drop in the d200. Basically the d200 is a computer with a lens on it but it is a camera that you can grow into as you learn which is the case for me. I don't think I would buy a used one and be sure you buy from a reputable dealer and make sure it is not gray market and that it is made in the USA. I don't know anything about the d40 or d80 Nikon's.
Ditto on the dpreview .com excellent resource before making your camera decision.

Good luck and happy hunting,

Rick G

[stickgirl Profile Private message]

Colleen - There are a series of articles here http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=academy
that may help.

Kathy

[XaiLo]

I am considering a DSLR for Christmas and would like your thoughts. I've narrowed it down to either the Nikon D40, D40x or the Canon Rebel XT, XTi. As most of you know, I am not a photographer but have always had interest in the subject. This would be for general personal use but would like the features/flexibility as I develop a new hobby. Is the $100 difference worth the increase in megapixels?

Thanks in advance,

Colleen

My first suggestion is that you actually handle all the cameras in question as for build, navigation, and ergonomics, there is quite a difference in philosophy between the two. Secondly pick up the book "Understanding Exposure" by Brian Peterson it's a lite read with very good practicle examples of what you will be facing in the real world. It breaks it down and makes it simple for a beginner.

I own the Canon S3 a P&S that has the basic shape and exterior material as the XTi, I also own the D40. There is a lot to absorb when moving into the realm of an SLR especially in your position because there are so many unknowns to contend with on both sides of the fence... lenses, and flash systems, that go along with the body. Then who's to say what type of photography will interest you a year from now, landscape, portrait, macro, or architectural and so on.

I happen to like the D40 a lot as mentioned it does not have a focus assist motor and will not auto focus on some older lenses. How big an issue is this in my experience for those who actually own a D40 it is not a biggie... most who really want the 50mm prime seem to have no problem manually focusing the lens. And that's pretty much another misconception it's not that these lenses will not work on the D40 there is just limited functionality and this situation is not unique to the D40 alone. But I will include a list of compatible lenses in a moment. The kit lense is really nice lens that is pretty impressive. I used this combination at this years autoshow walked around for six hrs continuosly holding the camera and it was like it wasn't even there. And it takes some really nice pictures.

One thing that not talked about too much is that at ISO 1600 the D40 produces very usable images and this is no exageration ISO 1600 on the D40 is better than ISO 400 on the S3. Personally I like the ergonomics of Nikon over Canon. I have used theis camera on a commercial shoot and the client was very satisfied with the results. I also use it for shooting portraits and no one has ever complained about the picture quality.

The menu system is very easy to use, better than that, two quick taps on a button and you can change any major setting directly from the LCD display with out having to use the menu system. Most of the guys I know are happy with the 18-55mm kit lenses which now is available in a VR variant and the 55-200mm VR which for $249 is a great deal from the pictures I have seen. My primary lenses is the 70-200mm VR let's just say I smile a lot. Last I heard there were some really well priced two lens combo deals (18-55mm & 55-200mm VR) if you go this route make sure it is indeed the 55-200mm VR that is included. I hope this was of some help to you.

List of current fully compatible AF-Lenses for the D40/D40X:
Nikkor:

AF-S DX 12-24mm f/4.0G ED-IF

AF-S 17-35mm f/2.8D ED-IF

AF-S DX 17-55mm f/2.8G ED-IF

AF-S DX 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G

AF-S VR DX 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G New

AF-S DX 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G ED-IF

AF-S DX 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 ED-IF

AF-S VR DX 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED

AF-S 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

AF-S VR 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF

AF-S 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

AF-S DX 55-200mm f/4-5.6G ED

AF-S VR 55–200mm f/4–5.6G IF-ED

AF-S VR 70-200mm f/2.8G ED-IF

AF-S VR 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G

AF-S 80-200mm f/2.8D ED-IF

AF-S VR 105mm f/2.8G

AF-S VR 200mm f/2.0G ED-IF

AF-S VR 200-400mm f/4.0G ED-IF

AF-I 300mm f/2.8D IF-ED

AF-S 300mm f/2.8D IF-ED

AF-S 300mm f/4.0D ED-IF

AF-S VR 300mm f/2.8 ED-IF

AF-I 400mm f/2.8D IF-ED

AF-S 400mm f/2.8D ED-IF

AF-I 500mm f/4.0D IF-ED

AF-S 500mm f/4.0D ED-IF

AF-I 600mm f/4.0D IF-ED

AF-S 600mm f/4.0D ED-IF


Sigma:

10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX DC HSM

12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX DG HSM

14mm f/2.8 EX

17-35mm f/2.8-4.0 EX DG

17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 DC Macro HSM New

18-50mm f/3.5-5.6 DC HSM New

18-50mm f/2.8 EX DC Macro HSM New

18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS New

30mm f/1.4 DC

50-500mm f/4.0-6.3 EX DG

50-150mm f/2.8 EX DC HSM

55-200mm f/4-5.6 DC HSM New

70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG Makro

80-200mm f/2.8 EX DG Makro

80-400mm f/4-5.6 EX OS

100-300mm f/4.0 EX DG

120-300mm f/2.8 EX DG

150mm f/2.8 EX DG MAKRO

180mm f/3.5 EX DG MAKRO

300mm f/2.8 EX DG APO HSM

300-800mm f/5.6 EX DG APO

500mm f/4.5 EX DG HSM APO

800mm f/5.6 EX DG APO

[czali Profile Private message]

Thanks again everyone for all of your expertise. I am looking at everything but have not made a final decision. I am leaning toward the D40 but we will have to see.

Colleen

[kat Profile Private message]

Hi Colleen,

I havn't much to add here, you have been given a lot of good advice. Both Canon and Nikon are excellent and both have an extensive range of lenses which is an important factor to consider when you are building up your kit You really need to hold the cameras before you make such an important decision, as said, you are investing in a system which you will add too and upgrade as the years go on. Canon users will always favour Canon, Nikon users will swear it's the best, a never ending argument. I ended up with Canon but Nikon are first class, nothing between them. If you go with Nikon I would say go for the one with the motor ( I think it's the 40x) my argument is you can then use any of the Nikon lenses and are not restricted to the ones with motors in them to use autofocus. I think it has other features too but as a Canon user I really don't know a lot about them.

Hope I've helped, I had to make a similar decision 2years ago and I know how how hard it was, just remember you need a camera that can grow with you. Whatever you choose, happy snapping.

Kat

[RayB]

Hi
I am a dedicated Nikon fan not to say that Canon are not good.
Looking for a DSLR earlier this year I looked at Nikon''s D40, D40x & D80
Discounted the D40 due to it limitations you could feel it does not have everything you want as the bug bites harder.
I was lucky my local camera shop had a couple of D50s which I finally bought.A good deal the same might also apply to a D70s.
If you have the time have a look at www.steves-digicams.com he is my bible for all things digital

Ray