Follow the Leader - Part 2

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Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby VidQueen » Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:22 am

After several great questions and comments on the first tutorial, I wanted to make a Part 2. In this short extra you'll learn how to make the wall pause before and after panning, how to add more pictures to the wall and you'll also learn that Barbara should always be consulted before making tutorials;)


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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby des.tom » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:03 am

Thank you very much. They were most helpful. Now I must find the time to read up on modifiers!!

Des

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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby BarbaraC » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:42 am

Jennifer, we all need to periodically brainstorm! I would never have thought of that solution had I not been watching your own solution to a situation.

Des, the sad thing is that reading up on modifiers sure isn't an activity you'll be able to accomplish using the manual. All but the most basic stuff is in there, and it's hardly even glossed over. Your best bet is to run a search in the forum for "modifier." First, play with what Jennifer has shown us here. Also, Dale has quite a bit on his blog.

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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby des.tom » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:37 am

Barbara,

Thanks for the tips. I've used Jennifer's method successfully to create the scrolling effect but I need to go back to basics to see exactly what modifiers do and when/where they can/should be used.

Des

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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby BarbaraC » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:53 am

Des, my opinion along with that of others is that Photodex hasn't made the modifier screen very friendly at all. It does very little to cover up the underlying math, so we end up at times feeling as if we need calculus to make an object move from A to Z. What I suggest is placing just one image in a slide and then playing like mad in the modifier screen, setting up something, then scrubbing in the little window to see what the result is. After a while, you're likely to get a "feel" for who's doing what. Once that happens, then read whatever you can find on the subject. It's much easier to understand what you're reading if you can picture things in your mind.

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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby des.tom » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:32 am

That sounds very good advice. Perhaps getting to grips with that ought to be my new year's resolution!!!!!

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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby des.tom » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:56 am

Jennifer,

I've used these tutorials to create a number of effects in my latest shows - Switzerland 2014 - and am pleased with the results so thanks once again.

Des

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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby BarbaraC » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:52 am

Good going, Des!
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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby heckydog » Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:00 am

I have a dream . . . .

That some day Photodex will see the light and get rid of the whole ridiculous modifier idea. And replace it with a much more common sense "parent/child" method.

A simple right click menu option is all you should need. Highlight a layer, right click and a "Parent this layer to..." option is offered, or a "Link this layer to..." option.

Jennifer mentions the parent/child idea more than once in her tutorials because it's the right way to think of it.

It makes absolutely zero sense to have to make separate modifiers for the X and Y axes and all that other stuff.

I am now wide awake and back in the real world . . . :roll:

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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby BarbaraC » Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:37 am

heckydog wrote:It makes absolutely zero sense to have to make separate modifiers for the X and Y axes and all that other stuff.

When a person unlocks the X and Y axes, it makes sense.

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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby heckydog » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:42 am

BarbaraC wrote:
heckydog wrote:It makes absolutely zero sense to have to make separate modifiers for the X and Y axes and all that other stuff.

When a person unlocks the X and Y axes, it makes sense.

Barbara


That's the problem with the modifier system. Unlocking the X and Y just doubles your work since you now have to add modifiers to the X and Y. Using the parent/child system it doesn't matter. You're just pointing to a parent layer and telling the child layer to do whatever the parent does.

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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby VidQueen » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:49 am

Using a Parent/Child method is very much like Modifiers, actually. You don't want to lose the ability to choose which attribute to attach each layer to or you will lose a lot of control. The Modifiers in Producer could be cleaned up...A LOT....but, the concept is identical to parenting, really :D Maybe an additional modifier choice to modify "everything", so you don't have to choose multiple attributes if you don't want to?! I'd be in favor of that :) I think most people who even attempt to use the modifiers would probably be "parenting" all attributes anyway, no?

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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby BarbaraC » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:57 am

heckydog wrote:
BarbaraC wrote:
heckydog wrote:It makes absolutely zero sense to have to make separate modifiers for the X and Y axes and all that other stuff.

When a person unlocks the X and Y axes, it makes sense.

Barbara


That's the problem with the modifier system. Unlocking the X and Y just doubles your work since you now have to add modifiers to the X and Y. Using the parent/child system it doesn't matter. You're just pointing to a parent layer and telling the child layer to do whatever the parent does.

I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying no one should unlock X/Y because it doubles the work, or are you saying that, if they're unlocked, the work is doubled? If I have something fluctuating along the X-axis and I want something else to be in sync with that fluctuation, how is the work doubled, putting aside all the obscure descriptive words Photodex uses?

I've the funny feeling you have an apple in your head and I've got an orange. :D

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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby heckydog » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:57 pm

BarbaraC wrote:I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying no one should unlock X/Y because it doubles the work, or are you saying that, if they're unlocked, the work is doubled? If I have something fluctuating along the X-axis and I want something else to be in sync with that fluctuation, how is the work doubled, putting aside all the obscure descriptive words Photodex uses?

Barbara


No, I'm not saying that at all. Pan X and Pan Y must have modifiers applied to them separately in order to follow a horizontal path like Des used in some of his slides. So if you're moving in both the X and Y directions you're doing twice the work compared to if you only moved in just X or just Y. When you use the modifier concept as designed by Photodex it means more work. If they used the more logical idea of the parent/child method, it simplifies the process and expands your possibilities.

I can say that because I've done some pretty complicated effects using After Effects or Blufftitler that I wouldn't even dream of trying to do with modifiers. Here's one example, 2.6MB wmv file, about 6 seconds long. Each segment had a pendulum effect applied to it. Then each one was parented to the one above. I did this 3-4 years ago for my grand-daughters birthday show.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/242 ... 20Cake.wmv

The thing is Photodex may stay with this modifier method until the end of time for all we know. I certainly have no influence on how they design their software, but I can always hope :D

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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby im42n8 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:45 pm

The only difference between what you're proposing, Joe and what Photodex currently has is that Photodex hasn't gotten there yet. They may never get there. However, modifiers, as implemented, are still a first generation only implementation of the feature. They've failed to improve the modifiers since their introduction in v4. There is room for improvement almost everywhere you look.

Sure, modifiers allow you to do things that are otherwise impossible but they're also extremely limited in their feature set. Even Photodex doesn't use modifiers in any complicated sense (and Photodex introduced them!!). Since they don't make much effective use of modifiers themselves, it's doubtful modifiers will get the much needed update they direly need (I could be wrong tho .... this company has been VERY quiet for the 2nd time in a row ... nearly a year since the last (minor) update. It's possible there could be a major improvement in lots of things ... we can only hope...).

So, what they have isn't bad for a first gen feature ... but, you'd have thought that they'd have been improved after 6 years (and they haven't even come close to improving anything about modifiers). They could use a "camera" concept similar to AE (like Jennifer has proposed to them) to give us more 3-D like treatment of our images. That'd make 3D-like effects easier and much more believable. They could introduce a parenting approach to the feature to make addressing some effects easier. Their math could be hierarchical instead of linear. They could address image features that the program doesn't allow. Zoom could be much easier to address (via modifiers) than they now are and vastly improved (so that a feature like zoom following would not be broken by changes in other features-- like using rotate or tilt...). The Rotate Center feature is only partially implemented (making it effectively a broken feature for nearly everyone). I'm probably one of only a small handful of people who use the program who do know how to use it effectively. That group of people able to effectively use the feature should be expanded to nearly everyone. It was wrong to implement a broken feature and then to fail to fix that feature in the last 6 years (and, believe it or not, the manual still provides incorrect information for this feature as of the latest release, v6.0.3410).

What you've got is a company that's afraid of feature bloat. They want their features to be usable directly out of the box by anyone, complete novices. Those who are "expert" enough with the program to know how to take advantage of the program's "hidden" capabilities are left in the lurch by the company. Photodex doesn't want ProShow to become like AE ... a program that's extremely powerful but only usable after a less than short learning curve. Fear of that scenario (complexity over simplicity) keeps them from improving the program to be usable by the complete novice but able to be easily feature-exploitable by the expert user. No common user is going to sway Photodex from its narrowly focused view of their user-base. They must come to that conclusion themselves. The vast majority of their users are part-timers, people who use the program irregularly ... maybe a few shows a year. That's where their focus is ... not on people who know how to put the program through its paces and to do things that many thought were impossible. Until Photodex can see a bigger picture and expand their perspective on who uses their program and who COULD use their program, don't hold your breath on the features many of us advanced users would REALLY like to see.

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