Follow the Leader - Part 2

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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby im42n8 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:02 am

The only areas, really, where you might experience an improvement is in memory addressing and computationally intensive floating point operations. You might get some speed improvements in some computations but, it's typically NOT going to be anything stellar for most applications. It means more efficient operations (note that this implies a 64-bit application working in a 64-bit operating systems ... NOT a 32-bit application working on a 64-bit operating system in a 32-bit working environment within that system).

I have definitely bumped into the memory limitations of ProShow's 32-bit architecture ... on more than one occasion. Some of the effects I've worked with have stressed the memory requirements to the breaking point (it is NOT hard to do...). While Photodex might someday move to the 64-bit environment, I don't think they'll do it until 64-bit operating systems (and most applications become 64-bit) are preeminent (that is, support for 32-bit applications has waned). However, as with other speculations about what Photodex will do, I could be wrong on this one. They're probably working on it ... but I doubt it will appear in the next release or two (which might be 1 to 3 years from now).

Some operations might not be quite as efficient in the 64-bit environment or will provide no gain in speed of operation (effectively). The basic word is now 64-bits vs 32-bits so you're also moving (potentially) more data (or information) in a 64-bit environment than a 32-bit environment. However, when it comes to addressing memory, particularly memory over 4GB (and into the terabytes), a 64-bit environment is going to be more efficient (and generally much faster) than a 32-bit environment.

Dale
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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby heckydog » Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:24 pm

BarbaraC wrote:I noticed he talked about phones, which have little need of more memory, and then he never mentioned software that has a huge need for memory. When I upgraded from the 32-bit music sequencing software I was using to the newer 64-bit version, all memory problems disappeared. Poof! People using ProShow have periodically mentioned memory problems, too. Don't you think it might help there, too?

Barbara


I don't know what kind of a memory hog music sequencing software is so I can't comment. Absolutely there are programs that benefit from 64 bit architecture but as the guy mentioned it usually entails a total re-write of software which generally improves performance just on that basis and allows better use of RAM over 4GB anyway.

The people who periodically (once a day, once a year?) mention memory issues, are they trying to create a show with 2000 photos that are 4000x2800px? Are they trying to add a 2GB video to a 15 minute show? In the first case I don't want to watch a 2 hour slide show, in the second they should be using a video editor, not ProShow. So the fault may not be in ProShow's 32 bit format.

You can always find exceptions on a case by case basis. But overall, I still would prefer other enhancements first. You thought 64bit would speed up ProShow, the video gives a fairly decent argument about why it won't. You can still wish for it, and maybe that's what they're working on, but don't get your hopes up too high that it will be the end all cure all. Or is it cure all, end all? :D

Keep smilin',

Joe

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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby heckydog » Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:31 pm

im42n8 wrote:The only areas, really, where you might experience an improvement is in memory addressing and computationally intensive floating point operations. You might get some speed improvements in some computations but, it's typically NOT going to be anything stellar for most applications. It means more efficient operations (note that this implies a 64-bit application working in a 64-bit operating systems ... NOT a 32-bit application working on a 64-bit operating system in a 32-bit working environment within that system).

I have definitely bumped into the memory limitations of ProShow's 32-bit architecture ... on more than one occasion. Some of the effects I've worked with have stressed the memory requirements to the breaking point (it is NOT hard to do...). While Photodex might someday move to the 64-bit environment, I don't think they'll do it until 64-bit operating systems (and most applications become 64-bit) are preeminent (that is, support for 32-bit applications has waned). However, as with other speculations about what Photodex will do, I could be wrong on this one. They're probably working on it ... but I doubt it will appear in the next release or two (which might be 1 to 3 years from now).

Some operations might not be quite as efficient in the 64-bit environment or will provide no gain in speed of operation (effectively). The basic word is now 64-bits vs 32-bits so you're also moving (potentially) more data (or information) in a 64-bit environment than a 32-bit environment. However, when it comes to addressing memory, particularly memory over 4GB (and into the terabytes), a 64-bit environment is going to be more efficient (and generally much faster) than a 32-bit environment.

Dale


I think most of what you said pretty much agrees with my thoughts and previous comments as it pertains to ProShow. So, that's 2 of us, and counting.

You said you have stressed the memory on more than one occasion. You were deliberate and knew what you were doing. Your average user won't do that except by accident.

Joe

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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby BarbaraC » Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:08 pm

Joe, you're speaking solely from your own experience, which isn't always the best idea. It's akin to saying, "If it's good enough for my purposes, then it should be good enough for everyone's." As for memory issues with ProShow, if the software makes it possible to do whopping shows, then why not? Surely not because you don't care for such shows. I don't either, but neither you nor I should be the rule for others.

Don't forget that the "average" user may not always be average and may strive to get better and better with the software. My goodness, look at what Dale has managed, and surely he began as just your Average Dale before he turned into Super Dale.

Anyway, if ProShow has memory problems due to 32-old-bitty behavior, and if it can be addressed, why not? Surely not because Joe wouldn't make hay with it and therefore nobody else should either. :lol:

Barbara
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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby heckydog » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:35 pm

I didn't say I was against it, just that there are other things I thought should be addressed first.

My main point has been what peoples expectations are for a 64 bit PSP/PSG. On the Pinnacle forum most comments relate to the fact Studio 18 isn't any faster than earlier versions. And that's a lot of other users experiences besides mine. I use that as an example only because it's the most recent one I've been involved with and there's a large base of people.

But you're right, I shouldn't judge people who want to make super massive, effect filled shows.

Joe

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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby BarbaraC » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:14 am

heckydog wrote:But you're right, I shouldn't judge people who want to make super massive, effect filled shows.

Joe

You can, but be prepared for those who create epics to clobber you. Been there, done that. :shock: :lol:

Barbara
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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby im42n8 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:14 am

Joe, it has NOTHING to do with the size of the show. ProShow does not specifically handle memory due to the size of a show. That's a common misnomer. While show size is a minor consideration, what's important is the size of the slide (memory resources footprint). Not only that, but there's a memory hit as a slide transition occurs. In this case, you may have two very large slides in memory at the same time... as the current slide fades from view and as the next slide fades into view (From ProShow's perspective, that's effectively two slides in memory at the same time). If they both require lots of memory ... that could be problematic. However, memory required isn't the only consideration. Resources are also a consideration. And different types of layers on the slide use different types of resources. If those resources are latched and not released during the transition, you could likewise run into a resource problem that will crash the program ... and yet, you'll still have LOTS of memory resources available. Almost nobody knows about that little gotcha. I only know about it because of crashes that I started investigating ... KNOWING that I had not run into a memory limitation issue.

While I agree with you about the "simplicity" of a show for my own personal purposes ... there are a wide variety of different situations, conditions, needs, etc that demand a variety of approaches to presenting images. A "marketing" video would violate all of the principles of a "personal" video, and vice versa. Options/choices (for effects) are great in that case ... something for every occasion. The marketing video may be effects filled while the memorial will have next to none. There's fun and then there's serious. There's business and then there's non-business. None are the same.

I like the choices offered by the program to do what I want to do ... heck, I have to work at it sometimes. (even if I growl about the limitations of the program ... or the surprisingly difficult lengths to which I must go to achieve the effect I want ... and which I believe SHOULD NOT be as difficult as they are). But, I figure that a little work now will save me lots of work (and time) later. You've probably, undoubtedly run into the same kind of situation with both AE and BuffTitler.

Dale
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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby des.tom » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:35 am

Getting back to the original theme, ie Follow the Leader tutorial. Despite all that has been said over the past I don't know how many responses, in my humble opinion, for those who haven't viewed it, Jennifer's tutorial is still well worth a visit.

Des

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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby im42n8 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:45 am

Nice try Des ... but, like in real life, sometimes a conversation takes on a life ... but, it doesn't mean the material covered in the subsequent discussion is NOT relevant ... even if, at first glance the train of thought appears to have absolutely no relationship to the initial topic. You only need to FOLLOW the train of the conversation and then, if you're paying attention, you can see how it might have relevance. What is the problem anyway? This is your 2nd attempt ... Is there some other agenda on your mind here?

Yes, her tutorial is more than worth a visit. It's an excellent tutorial and well presented. It covers this particular approach of one layer following another very well. However, it is actually only a subset to the pan following technique of one layer following another. If you step out of the specific parameters around which the images are used, you'll discover that for yourself. However, it is a simple and great introduction to the concept of pan following. And the way she's presented it, the technique is easy to do and to follow.

For a tutorial that covers all aspects of this particular type of pan following (including the subset presented in this tutorial), check out my Pan Following tutorial (Parts 4a and 4b - Follow Me). There's more to the idea of pan following then it appears: Introduction to Pan Following (the basics, Part 1), "Locked" Layers (part 2), Captions (text layers may get added to this in the future ... but, they have some problems that preclude any widespread usage at this time"; part 3), and the specific treatment of "follow another layer" concept (part 4).

Dale
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Re: Follow the Leader - Part 2

Postby BarbaraC » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:19 am

Des, don't worry about Jennifer's tutorial getting buried. Even a tangent gives it a boost because it keeps the thread fresh, which means that anyone who never saw it originally will now be noticing it.

Barbara
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