True Position of a Rotate Center Rotated Layer

Post your tips & tricks here for creating slide shows with ProShow Producer. This could include suggestions for style and content in addition to working with the software itself
.
User avatar
Posts: 3736
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:21 am
Location: Parker, CO

True Position of a Rotate Center Rotated Layer

Postby im42n8 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:28 pm

Proshow incorrectly reports the actual position of a layer that has been rotated on a non-zero valued rotate center.

Add two layers. Fit to Frame is their scale and 50% zoom. Let their aspect be 1280:720 (or 16:9). Position each at screen center. Rotate each layer 45 degrees. Select one of the layers and give it a rotate center of -50, 50. What happened is that its position changed downward, toward the screen bottom. Still, you'll note that the pan values for that layer are still 0,0. That's because the rotation did NOT occur on the layer center but on the rotation point given by the rotate center values. This offset the layer's physical position (layer center) ...but the layer doesn't actually know that and ProShow does NOT report that information.

If you needed the layer with the non-zero rotate center value to actually reside exactly underneath the other rotated layer (which has zero value rotate center values), then you need to do some fiddling around. If you're careful, you might find the right spot. In truth, this scenario has the layer with the non-zero rotate center needing pan values of -2.621, -38.749 to align perfectly with the other rotated layer.

The method used to figure out the exact values is technical. This link is to a demonstration of tool that does the work for you: https://youtu.be/74-n9bIPvuw
When you need this functionality, anything that helps reduce the time and effort required is a plus!

Dale
What's New: Tools for ProShow: v11.42a Access ProShow capabilities Photodex doesn't provide (For PSG & PSP).
FPVP Blog "Making the Difficult Easier," FPVP News

.
User avatar
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 2:19 am
Location: Britanny (France)

Re: True Position of a Rotate Center Rotated Layer

Postby Jeep » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:35 am

Hi Dale,
What should be wicked : adjust the rotate center by a simple click on the exact position on screen or selecting a point already drawn (like the corner of a previous layer). Anyway, your tools are awesome.
Jean-Pierre

My blog
Processor: Intel Quad core 2.33 Ghz - RAM: 4 Gb - Windows 8.1 64 bits - Video: Nvidia 720GT 2 Gb- Camera : Canon 5D Mark II + 24-105 + 100-400 - Sharing : jean_pierre

.
User avatar
Posts: 3736
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:21 am
Location: Parker, CO

Re: True Position of a Rotate Center Rotated Layer

Postby im42n8 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:16 am

Hi Jeep! Yeah ... It's been asked for... years ago. It sure would be nice.

Too, it would be nice if Photodex implemented the full capabilities offered by ProShow to the rotate center function. What they initially did was to provide only the functionality of a layer's rotation on other than layer center. Previous to v4, that's the only rotation point available. However, they have never revisited the issue. So, if you want to take advantage of that function, you have to figure out how to do it yourself. Bummer eh?

The help file says that the only valid values for Rotate Center are plus or minus 50. Actually, the numbers are limited to whatever the pan values are. The only USEFUL values (unless you know a little more about ProShow) are those values defined as being within the confines of the layer ... that is plus or minus 50.

When you know that Pan, Zoom, and Rotate Center are all inter-related, you can access the full capability of rotate center. That includes being able to use a specific screen location around which to rotate any number of different layers.

Photodex, if they provided access to the full capability of the Rotate Center function, would have to provide all kinds of changes throughout the program. It will affect what information they'll have to provide to the user. It's non-trivial...and probably one of the reasons they have yet to do it. I discovered this relationship just over 7 years ago this month (about a year after the release of v4). Photodex has yet to address it in that whole time . It's been long over a year since the last release ... one can only hope they're going to offer some long overdue updates to a number of existing features (Rotate Center being among them). We've been disappointed before ... but, we remain hopeful!

Dale
What's New: Tools for ProShow: v11.42a Access ProShow capabilities Photodex doesn't provide (For PSG & PSP).
FPVP Blog "Making the Difficult Easier," FPVP News

.
User avatar
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 2:19 am
Location: Britanny (France)

Re: True Position of a Rotate Center Rotated Layer

Postby Jeep » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:21 am

With one release every 12 months and a half, they are guaranteed for a paying upgrade each time, the free one year upgrade becomes a delusion unless it's a real new version with excellent features. But, if the upgrade is only a replastering of the previous release with some poor amendments and a few bug fixed, no one is interested and the software will gradually lose its primacy, this is the main risk of Photodex.
Jean-Pierre
Last edited by Jeep on Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jean-Pierre

My blog
Processor: Intel Quad core 2.33 Ghz - RAM: 4 Gb - Windows 8.1 64 bits - Video: Nvidia 720GT 2 Gb- Camera : Canon 5D Mark II + 24-105 + 100-400 - Sharing : jean_pierre

.
User avatar
Posts: 3736
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:21 am
Location: Parker, CO

Re: True Position of a Rotate Center Rotated Layer

Postby im42n8 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:03 pm

:D
You don't say!

(I think a number of us voiced something similar ... the last two "major" updates.)

:D

Dale
What's New: Tools for ProShow: v11.42a Access ProShow capabilities Photodex doesn't provide (For PSG & PSP).
FPVP Blog "Making the Difficult Easier," FPVP News

Active Member
User avatar
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:15 am
Location: Vaux-sur-Seine, FRANCE

Re: True Position of a Rotate Center Rotated Layer

Postby Apolinaire » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:30 pm

Hi,

Thank you very much Dale !
The first time I discovered the rotate center issue was a few days ago. I was very annoyed. I know enough geometry to understand that this is a change of reference. One time the screen and the other time the layer. You have to make a transposition of coordinates.
I was about to create an Excel WorkSheet when I found your's ! It's always profitable to search in the forums !

I have tested your Excel WorkSheet and it's exactly what I was looking for ! Now, I can align multiple rotate centers of multiple layers smaller than the screen.
Once again, thank you Dale.

Apolinaire

.
User avatar
Posts: 3736
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:21 am
Location: Parker, CO

Re: True Position of a Rotate Center Rotated Layer

Postby im42n8 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:20 pm

De Nada Apollinaire. I’m glad things worked out for you. Thanks for the support!

Now to throw in a little wrench into things. The +/- 50 values they give you for the Rotate Center range are the values that keep the rotation point within the layer’s boundaries. That only means that if the layer’s scale, aspect, position, and/or size changes, the relative rotation point on the layer (for a given rotation center value) will remain the same. That doesn’t mean you have any real idea where, on the screen, that rotation point actually is ... that’s for the user to figure out.

Let’s assume you rotate a layer on a rotation point other than layer center. Do you know where, on the screen, that layer really is? If you wanted to change the layer’s rotation point AFTER the initial rotation, how are you going keep the layer in exactly the same position after changing those values? (This is before an rotation has occurred using the new values of rotate center). What you’ll find is that the layer position that is reported by ProShow is not it’s actual physical position. It’s not exactly easy to change the layer’s rotation point (say from -50,-50 to 50, 50) while keeping the layer at the same screen position.

Why would you want to do this? It depends on the effect you’re trying to create. But, basically, what a SHOULD be simple thing to do turns out to be NOT so simple to do. That’s because you now have to figure out how to change the layer’s direction or behavior without letting the user see a glitch in its position ... and ProShow gives you absolutely no help in this matter.

The full up version of my ProShow Tools will let you find the layer’s actual location. This is useful for those of use who want to create effects that are otherwise nearly impossible to do ... or at least very difficult or time-consuming to create. I’ll have to create a demo / tutorial for this. It’s on the To Do list ...
What's New: Tools for ProShow: v11.42a Access ProShow capabilities Photodex doesn't provide (For PSG & PSP).
FPVP Blog "Making the Difficult Easier," FPVP News

.
User avatar
Posts: 3736
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:21 am
Location: Parker, CO

Re: True Position of a Rotate Center Rotated Layer

Postby im42n8 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:24 pm

Earlier I explained, briefly, that a layer that's been rotated on other than its center does not have its true location reported by ProShow. This demo shows what I'm trying to describe. This simple demo simply shows a layer rotated at 40-degrees. There are three layers rotated at 40-degrees ... all of them at the same screen location, all of them with a different Pan Setting, and each one with a different Rotate Center Value.

Only layers 3 and 4 have the same pan and rotate center settings. You'll notice that while layers 1 and 2 have exactly the same screen location as layer 3, their pan settings are quite different.

If you want to position a layer to the same screen location but with a different rotate center value, you need to calculate where the true location of that layer is or should be. ProShow is of absolutely no assistance in something like this. However, if you would like to figure out where the layer really is (and certain effects you might want to create could benefit from this information), you could try and figure it out for yourself. I can tell you: good luck! It's a bunch of work and time consuming. You could also let my Tools for ProShow do the work for you. The basic version does not have this capability.

Anyway, here is the demo:



-Dale
What's New: Tools for ProShow: v11.42a Access ProShow capabilities Photodex doesn't provide (For PSG & PSP).
FPVP Blog "Making the Difficult Easier," FPVP News

Return to PSP - Tips & Tricks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests