Outputting 4K video for viewing on a Samsung TV

Post your tips & tricks here for creating slide shows with ProShow Producer. This could include suggestions for style and content in addition to working with the software itself
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Outputting 4K video for viewing on a Samsung TV

Postby nsd3 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:19 am

I’m trying to create a proof of concept 4K video slide show using PSP7. I have imported a few slides to make a 30 second duration 4K test video as the output format, but every variation I’ve tried doesn’t work when I attempt playback on my two months old Samsung 4K TV. The video frame rate (both 25 and 30fps have been attempted) and image size (3840 x 2160) are correct, but nothing plays back on my Samsung TV. As it's the only native 4K device I have, I can't test the validity of the video file. All my outpuy variations play back fine on my PC, but that's not the real world.

I’m not sure whether it’s my TV that needs some very specific settings in order to view the 4K content, and as such PSP doesn't support that "flavour" of 4K, or it's something else. I think compatibility may be better if PSP7 could output H.265 (HEVC) but that's only an assumption, and I don't know if Photodex have any plans to include H.265 into PSP7.

Also, I've noticed with PSP7, the render times for 4K are abysmal. A 30s video takes around 6 minutes to render (Intel 4930K CPU, 6 core (+6 virtual cores) overclocked to 4.2GHz and 64GB memory.

Has anyone found a solution to Samsung TV playback.


Regards,

Steve

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Re: Outputting 4K video for viewing on a Samsung TV

Postby gpsmikey » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:44 pm

How are you trying to play it on the TV? Are you using a USB flash drive or ? I have not used 4k although I do normally use 720p on my Samsung with a USB flash drive and it works very well. You might double check in the manual for the TV to see if there is something in particular it wants in the file name - sometimes it can be something as simple as a file name extension that is causing the problem getting it to play. I would expect at 4k you are going to need to use a fast flash drive too (USB3 if it supports it?).

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Re: Outputting 4K video for viewing on a Samsung TV

Postby nsd3 » Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:37 am

I use a USB3 flash drive, but the TV displays an error message saying the file cannot be opened as it is not compatible. Just to be sure, other HD video content on the same flash drive plays back fine.

The Supported Codecs for my Samsung TV are as follows:

H.264 BP/MP/HP
4096 x 2160 (maximum 30fps) & 3840 x 2160 (maximum 30fps):

H.265/HEVC
4096 x 2160 (maximum 30fps) & 3840 x 2160 (maximum 60fps):

Exporting video as HD 1920 x 1080 from PSP7 causes no issues at all with TV playback.


As I subscribe to Adobe Creative Cloud, I successfully re-rendered the video from PSP7 to a H.265 codec using Adobe Media Encoder, and it played back on my TV just fine. Downside is of course re-encoding the video twice over, plus the additional rendering time on top of that, so I'd rather get it right straight out of PSP7 if I can.

Having PSP7 use H.265 would really be beneficial, so I hope that's in development.


I've also opened a support call with Photodex, regarding 4K output but haven't received a reply as yet. I'll post the response when I receive it.

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Re: Outputting 4K video for viewing on a Samsung TV

Postby ezwriter » Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:21 am

I went through this exercise a while back trying to play a 4K file via USB input. It was not fun. My understanding from Samsung is that the file has to be in S4UD format. There is S4UD Maker software available on the web somewhere that converts an .mp4 file. I eventually found it (but I don't remember where exactly) and installed it. It converted my .mp4 4K file "successfully" but when I played it on my Sammy 4K HDTV it looked terrible and the picture was offset from center. That's the last time I tried. Things may have changed for the better, but based on my experience and method other than playing via USB would have to be used.

Good luck,
[another] Dale

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Re: Outputting 4K video for viewing on a Samsung TV

Postby moehler » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:54 pm

How are you planning to provide 4K video to folks? Have you tried to upload it to YouTube and run it from the YouTube 4K app?

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Re: Outputting 4K video for viewing on a Samsung TV

Postby nsd3 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:13 am

The 4K video is (at least for now) purely for my own use and entertainment. I did finally get it to work. The issue was the bit rate, which I set too high.
For those who want to give it a go, and have a 4K TV (this works on a Samsung), try the settings below. Photodex support also said they'd be looking into supplying 4K pre-defined presets going forward. No news on whether they'll support H.265 however.

Video Settings
===========
Format: MPEG4
Extension: mp4
Compression: MPEG4 AVC
Resolution: 3840 x 2160
Aspect Ratio: 16 x 9
Framerate: 30 fps
Quality>Average Bitrate: 35000 kbps
Video Profile: High
Interlacing: Off

Audio Settings
===========
Audio Format: AAC
Channels: Stereo
Bitrate 256 kbps
Sampling Rate: 44100 hz


Steve

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Re: Outputting 4K video for viewing on a Samsung TV

Postby ezwriter » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:20 am

Many thanks for the information, Steve. I used your settings and output a 4K test show that successfully played on my 4K Samsung TV. File size was quite large as one would imagine (391MB vs 70MB for a 1080p/HQ 1'42" show), but it played just fine. I've always wanted to see what the image quality difference would be for a true 4K show compared with a 1080p show upscaled. For me, it was definitely observable, although I had to have my face very close to the TV screen to really appreciate it.

When I built the file using "Custom Video File" I did not see anywhere to set the Audio parameters other than bitrate. Where did you adjust these audio settings?

I very much appreciate your perseverance!

[another] Dale

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Re: Outputting 4K video for viewing on a Samsung TV

Postby nsd3 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:45 am

You're quite right. You don't have any control over most of the audio settings, they're determined by the video codec you choose, and you can't modify most of the parameters. I just put the audio settings in for completeness. Apologies if I mislead you.


Steve

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Re: Outputting 4K video for viewing on a Samsung TV

Postby heckydog » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:28 am

ezwriter wrote: . . . . . I've always wanted to see what the image quality difference would be for a true 4K show compared with a 1080p show upscaled. For me, it was definitely observable, although I had to have my face very close to the TV screen to really appreciate it.
. . . . .

[another] Dale


How close is "very close"? If you have to be very close to notice the difference, is it worth upgrading?

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Re: Outputting 4K video for viewing on a Samsung TV

Postby nsd3 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:02 am

There's a number of factors here, notwithstanding the fact that if your imported slide show images are less than 4K, you're already upscaling. Add to that the fact even if your images are 4K, if you zoom into them, you may lose definition (upscaling again), depending on how big the imported image is. I would preferably work with images that were at least 6000 pixels on the long edge, to give some room for cropping, and maintain the desired output of 4K. Next you have bitrate. The lower the bitrate, the more compression of the video and that leads to loss of definition too.

As for viewing 4K, I'd agree, there's not a lot of difference overall, and it's not discernible for every slide. What is noticeable is some images, depending on the slide style chosen is they tend to take on an almost 3D like appearance, and really look like they're floating in space. Content plays quite a large part here, with high contrast images really looking that much more detailed and sharper, but I guess that's more a human perception thing than science.

I'd say 4K is better, but not so show stopping that you would wish to exclude anything else. I'm happy to stick with full HD, and just keep my slides shows archived for potentially re-creating in 4K if there really was a burning desire. It was an interesting experiment to create a native 4K video, but having done that, seeing the results, and of course how much longer a slide show video takes to render, HD is still the preferred choice - unless of course you're premiering your slide show on a 90" TV or something!

Steve

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Re: Outputting 4K video for viewing on a Samsung TV

Postby ezwriter » Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:33 am

Steve, thanks for the info about the audio. No misleading, I was pretty sure that you were just including the audio settings, but I thought I'd double-check.

Joe, I had to have my face within 3 ft of my 60 in. 4K screen to really see the difference. I agree with Steve's comments above. The differences I noticed (at 3 ft) were the lack of any "jaggies" on large text titles, and a less "flat" look on images. The upscaled 1080p/HQ images had a slight oversharpened look to them compared to the much more natural look at 4K. Fine details were better resolved. At my normal viewing distance of ~9 ft. any difference I saw might be wishful thinking - i.e. perhaps a slightly less harsh look due to the oversharpening-like edges of the upscaled 1080p/HQ. Based on what I saw, I wouldn't run out to buy a 4K TV just yet to view slide shows. Just for completeness, building the 4K test show I built with Steve's parameters vs the identical show in 1080p/HQ was:
4K/HQ 1080p/HQ
Length of slide show: 1'42" 1'42"
Number of slides: 14 14 (10 image slides, 3 title slides, one blank slide)
Time to build the show: 13'13" 2'50" (Using PSPv7 "Video for Web, Devices, and Computers")
File format: .mp4 .mp4
File size: 391MB 70MB

[another] Dale
(My preview shows the comparison in my reply rather disheveled even though it was typed in, but if it ends up that way after posting I think you can still figure it out. Sorry in advance.)

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Re: Outputting 4K video for viewing on a Samsung TV

Postby heckydog » Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:19 pm

That kinda coincides with what I've read in the recent past.

Essentially, 4K is fantastic, amazing, stupendous, (insert superlative), for movie theaters and other very large formats, but the advantage is not so great for your average home TV viewer.

And I suppose that also will be true when the 8K and 16K TV's come out in the next 4-5 years. Surely, the human eye has a limit to what it can perceive and our pocket books have a limit too.

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Re: Outputting 4K video for viewing on a Samsung TV

Postby marma0525 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:03 pm

This is a real helpful post as I did run into the same compatibility issue with my Samsung HD TV. A few, hopefully helpful, additional information.

4K videos straight out of the Sony camcorder (via HDMI) played back fine on the Samsung TV, picture quality was great.

My ProShow Producer generated file didn't play back on the Samsung TV (via USB connection using a USB hard drive), got the message "Frame rate not supported". I played the same file back without any problem using the WD HD Multi Media Drive hooked up to the same TV. I bought this drive as a did run into file compatibility issues in the past, trying to play back videos directly into the TV via USB. The WD Media drive works perfect for me, no more compatibility issues with any TV (old or new) and the video quality on the screen is great. So I continue producing shows with PS Producer as usual, even when 4K or XAVC S HD videos clips are included.

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