3D movement during zoom/pan

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3D movement during zoom/pan

Postby Way2Go » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:44 am

Hi everyone,

I wonder if anyone can help me with this effect?

I've noticed a new trend in TV documentaries where they show an old black & white photograph and slowly pan or zoom (aka Ken Burns) where the people appear detached from the background and seem to move independently.

They seem to be on a separate layer so that when you pan or zoom they move at a different rate than their original background. They don't 'appear' to be independent and on the background layer, they only seem to be on the front layer. Almost as though a different background has been superimposed although it hasn't because I've recognised some of the images . . . . . . if you see what I mean?

Apart from 'photoshoping' an additional layer with just the people on it (although they would still be on the original background layer!!) I can't think how this could be easily achieved. Any suggestions?

I hope you understand my explanations?

Kind regards

W2G

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Re: 3D movement during zoom/pan

Postby im42n8 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:06 am

You got it ... different layers and moved at a different rate during panning or zooming. The items in the image are each removed through a photo editor. Some could be via Photoshop Extended too. This idea isn't new, it's been around for at least several years. It's a bunch of work to do ... PS-Ext makes it easier (pricier too). Each item is a separate item. PS-Ext provides some additional realism to the effort. http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop ... 910-502630

Dale
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Re: 3D movement during zoom/pan

Postby Way2Go » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:00 am

Thanks for the response Dale, much appreciated. I'm fortunate to have a copy of Photoshop CS5 Extended and have used layers often to isolate things, however.

What I don't get is that if I have a photograph of 3 people standing in front of some farm machinery for example. If I create a separate layer for each person I can zoom or pan them independently but they will still appear on the original background unless I clone them out which would probably show if it was a complicated background.

Is that the only way that you see this working? Seems like an awful lotta work for a 6 second sequence huh?

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

W2G

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Re: 3D movement during zoom/pan

Postby VernonRobinson » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:14 am

In those effects notice that the people get bigger, thus covering their position in the original background. They do not get smaller, thus revealing more of the background image.

What I find intriguing is that I watched a football game last week and they did that with a single player, right after the play. Obviously they must have some pretty sophisticated software and computer systems to pull it off in real time.

Regards,
-Vernon

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Re: 3D movement during zoom/pan

Postby Way2Go » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:25 am

Thanks for the advice Vernon . . . and for the quick response :wink:

Thinking about it, that makes a lot of sense and yes, I think you're right regarding the technique. I'll just make them grow a little bigger to hide the same image on the background layer.

It's still a lot of work to create the layers but at least it now seems 'do_able'.

Thanks again.

W2G

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Re: 3D movement during zoom/pan

Postby trulytango » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:07 am

Hello W2G

I think the samples you have seen are the result of a technique called camera mapping in 3D animation software. The technique gives a way more complicated (and satisfying) effect than using multiple layers in PSP. There are some examples and links in the following thread:

http://proshowenthusiasts.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19058&p=147891&hilit=camera+mapping#p147891

Food for thought?

Iris :D
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Re: 3D movement during zoom/pan

Postby Way2Go » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:08 am

Iris, thank you.

That's exactly the technique I was trying to describe. The first film of the two girls sawing the log was exactly the technique I saw and would like to reproduce.

The second movie says they used 3D Max which upon investigation looks very expensive and very complicated for new users.

Having been giving the name of the technique, thanks again Iris, I'll see what else I can find out coz it's a 'must use' technique and I want to see if I can get something working.

I think Adobe After Effects uses a similar technique but I'm not sure how successful it will be.

Guys, I really appreciate your time in pointing me in the right direction. Much appreciated.

Barry

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Re: 3D movement during zoom/pan

Postby trulytango » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:20 am

Hi Barry

Blender software is free and there appears to be a lively community of users out there!

http://www.blendernation.com/2011/07/15/3d-camera-mapping-scenes-for-the-documentary-motalko/

Oh, for more hours in the day! I would love to learn how to do this technique as well...

Iris
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Re: 3D movement during zoom/pan

Postby Way2Go » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:59 am

Hi Iris.

That link went to an amazing movie. JUST what I was after - thank you.

I've downloaded a copy of the software and will see how I get on . . . . . so many interests - so little time :wink:

If I get somewhere with it I'll attempt to let you know how I got on via a YouTube movie.

Thanks again for your help.

Kind regards

Barry

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Re: 3D movement during zoom/pan

Postby Tonel » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:30 am

I've been waiting for pilotdan63 to jump in on this one. He hasn't yet so I'll do so on his behalf and hope he doesn't mind. The kudos belongs to him.

In his post of Aug 17 'How To Create 3D Effects For Gold & Producer' he informs us of a tutorial he made on how to do this: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=18668

He provides a link in that post to his tutorial: http://www.photodex.com/share/pilotdan/mk8acmg4

I think if you follow his tutorial you'll be able to achieve what you want. Unless of course you meant something different?

Tony
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Re: 3D movement during zoom/pan

Postby heckydog » Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:51 am

When you're cutting out the person from the background you need to be careful on how much bigger you make them. You have to keep in mind that in the original photo they are properly scaled to the background they stand in front of. Our eyes know what looks right and if it's off we will sense it without knowing what's wrong. It just doesn't feel right.

I have two techniques that I prefer to use for 2D/3D. One is simply substituting a different, but similar background altogether for the original. The second is cloning the background enough to cover the movement of the foreground person/object. People won't know exactly what was behind the subject so that's easy to get away with

Here's a slide show I did for a friend in 2008 where I used several different techniques. Not all of them involved 3D panning but they all are used to draw your eye to the subject.

http://www.photodex.com/share/sticky_buns/mbdwwgg4

At 1:44 I cloned in the background behind the subjects

At 6:17 I put the subjects in front of a totally different background and did a really large movement that suited the effect I wanted to achieve. They were in that park but it was from a different photo.

At 8:18 I used a bokeh plugin to blur the background which highlighted the father, daughter, and table in the foreground. The original photo didn't have any depth of field.

At 9:10 I made the background black and white to highlight the subjects.

The first 2 used the 3D pan effect and were done in After Effects. The other 2 in photoshop.

Joe

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Re: 3D movement during zoom/pan

Postby Way2Go » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:47 pm

Tonel wrote:I've been waiting for pilotdan63 to jump in on this one. He hasn't yet so I'll do so on his behalf and hope he doesn't mind. The kudos belongs to him.

In his post of Aug 17 'How To Create 3D Effects For Gold & Producer' he informs us of a tutorial he made on how to do this: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=18668

He provides a link in that post to his tutorial: http://www.photodex.com/share/pilotdan/mk8acmg4

I think if you follow his tutorial you'll be able to achieve what you want. Unless of course you meant something different?

Tony


Many thanks for that Tony. Yes, that's the effect I was after and the tutorial makes it appear straight forward to give it a go :-)

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Re: 3D movement during zoom/pan

Postby Way2Go » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:55 pm

Thank you for the advice (and movie) Joe.

Your advice is very useful and I'm looking forward to experimenting when I get a little time.

Many thanks for posting.

Barry

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Re: 3D movement during zoom/pan

Postby trulytango » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:10 am

Joe, I think your example at 6.17 looks super... the one where you used a different background altogether. For me, it's the image that most closely resembles a proper camera mapping technique. Your people didn't look like they'd been cut from another photo at all... sometimes the different lighting and shadows make it obvious, but you matched the two very well. 8)
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