Zoom Following while Rotating (A Reporting FIRST!)
19 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
Zoom Following while Rotating (A Reporting FIRST!)
This is a rather simple demonstration but it is a first of it's kind. It's another way for one layer to follow the zoom of another layer.
The Pink oval in the demo below is changing size. The Green oval is following the Pink oval's size changes while rotating around it (that is, the Green Oval has a starting zoom setting. The change in zoom information comes from the Pink oval). Notice that the Green oval also maintains its relative distance from the Pink oval too.
So, I've found a way for one layer to zoom follow another while simultaneously using rotation. The previous method of zoom following (1st reported here: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13944 and also documented here: http://fenimorephotovideos.com/blog/?page_id=179) would break if rotation was used by either the layer being followed or the layer doing the following.
Now all I need to do is to figure out practical applications to this newly found technique!
Dale
The Pink oval in the demo below is changing size. The Green oval is following the Pink oval's size changes while rotating around it (that is, the Green Oval has a starting zoom setting. The change in zoom information comes from the Pink oval). Notice that the Green oval also maintains its relative distance from the Pink oval too.
So, I've found a way for one layer to zoom follow another while simultaneously using rotation. The previous method of zoom following (1st reported here: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13944 and also documented here: http://fenimorephotovideos.com/blog/?page_id=179) would break if rotation was used by either the layer being followed or the layer doing the following.
Now all I need to do is to figure out practical applications to this newly found technique!
Dale
Re: Zoom Following while Rotating (A Reporting FIRST!)
Dale, this is good !
Can you do the same with regular sizes of pictures ? (I mean rectangular forms and not round)
Because if you can, then you can use the circles as masks, and you have a nice "new style" on your hands
It's something that I wanted to do for a long time, but couldn't
Can you do the same with regular sizes of pictures ? (I mean rectangular forms and not round)
Because if you can, then you can use the circles as masks, and you have a nice "new style" on your hands
It's something that I wanted to do for a long time, but couldn't
Re: Zoom Following while Rotating (A Reporting FIRST!)
Looks cool, can't wait to see wait to see what you do with it.
Re: Zoom Following while Rotating (A Reporting FIRST!)
Dale,
This is more or less what I have in mind:
They should all rotate and move like in your example, of course.
This is more or less what I have in mind:
They should all rotate and move like in your example, of course.
Re: Zoom Following while Rotating (A Reporting FIRST!)
Mona,
I created a style that directly led to the new technique before I realized what I'd done. Effectively, I have 3 landscape images side by side. The center image is larger than the two side images. The 2 side images are rotated 90 degrees and "stuck" to the sides of the center image (left and right) while it rotates. It's not quite what I'd shown in this demo but the key thing was that I had the effect setup to automatically resize the side images if the center image had to use an increased zoom from the default to fit the mask. Additionally, the side image's rotation center was automatically calculated too. That formed the basis of this demo. When I was doing a portrait version of the landscape image version, I ran into a little problem I had to investigate (a positioning error related to rotation center changes). It was then that I realized what I'd actually done. So, I didn't set out to find a new way to do a zoom follow, it just evolved from trying to make the effect easy to use with a wide variety of image aspects without having to do any calculations.
This is effectively the same thing you and I were trying to figure out how to do almost exactly 2 years ago!
Dale
ADDITIONAL. It's not exactly what you wanted but, as a first cut, it's not too much work to get the additional layers to also zoom follow. These additional layers can act as masks to the image. And I can apply the same basic concept to the image.
Five Layers Doing Zoom Following (1 is serving as a mask; 3 are colored layers, 1 is the masked image)
-First is the original demo slide and that's followed by the updated version using a masked image as one of the rotating while zoom following layers.
I created a style that directly led to the new technique before I realized what I'd done. Effectively, I have 3 landscape images side by side. The center image is larger than the two side images. The 2 side images are rotated 90 degrees and "stuck" to the sides of the center image (left and right) while it rotates. It's not quite what I'd shown in this demo but the key thing was that I had the effect setup to automatically resize the side images if the center image had to use an increased zoom from the default to fit the mask. Additionally, the side image's rotation center was automatically calculated too. That formed the basis of this demo. When I was doing a portrait version of the landscape image version, I ran into a little problem I had to investigate (a positioning error related to rotation center changes). It was then that I realized what I'd actually done. So, I didn't set out to find a new way to do a zoom follow, it just evolved from trying to make the effect easy to use with a wide variety of image aspects without having to do any calculations.
This is effectively the same thing you and I were trying to figure out how to do almost exactly 2 years ago!
Dale
ADDITIONAL. It's not exactly what you wanted but, as a first cut, it's not too much work to get the additional layers to also zoom follow. These additional layers can act as masks to the image. And I can apply the same basic concept to the image.
Five Layers Doing Zoom Following (1 is serving as a mask; 3 are colored layers, 1 is the masked image)
-First is the original demo slide and that's followed by the updated version using a masked image as one of the rotating while zoom following layers.
Last edited by im42n8 on Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Zoom Following while Rotating (A Reporting FIRST!)
Dale,
Yes, I saw the posts from two years ago
What I had in mind then was a snowman (made of 3 circles) and they all jump up and down together, or at least they move together.
I need to see what you've done here in order to understand properly.
It's midnight here and my mind isn't working anymore
ADDITION !!!
I just saw your 2nd demo. Definitely a winner
BTW, I think I have the solution for keeping the distances between circles, but I'm not sure because I didn't put it into practice just yet !
Yes, I saw the posts from two years ago
What I had in mind then was a snowman (made of 3 circles) and they all jump up and down together, or at least they move together.
I need to see what you've done here in order to understand properly.
It's midnight here and my mind isn't working anymore
ADDITION !!!
I just saw your 2nd demo. Definitely a winner
BTW, I think I have the solution for keeping the distances between circles, but I'm not sure because I didn't put it into practice just yet !
Re: Zoom Following while Rotating (A Reporting FIRST!)
Mona,
This could be a version of what you might have been seeking. This effect looks simple. What's not simple are the calculations necessary to account for the rotation center changes required for certain image aspects that can be used with this effect. Because some aspects, when zoomed beyond the default, have an "overflow" beyond the upper and lower mask edges, the image aspect needs to be defined. Then, the calculations are made for any adjustments up/down (for positioning the image if the important part needs to be moved back into view after the zoom change) so that the rotation center is properly placed. The same goes for the rotation center changes required for the side images when they're automatically zoomed.
I have a couple of other, more involved effects too, where 9 side by side layers are rotated together while maintaining sides to sides contact for all layers. Now, this isn't a case of moving along a path exactly but it is a major step in that direction. But, given what I've accomplished so far, the ability to do that isn't too far away. I just have to find the time and justification to do it. After all, I've only just created the actual zoom following effect yo see today based on what I created in the past couple of days. Only time will tell what else I come up with now! Surprising, I did not set to figure this stuff out ... it just developed out of my efforts to put figure a way to use the knowledge I gained by discovering how to coordinate rotation centers for multiple disparate layers.
Dale
This could be a version of what you might have been seeking. This effect looks simple. What's not simple are the calculations necessary to account for the rotation center changes required for certain image aspects that can be used with this effect. Because some aspects, when zoomed beyond the default, have an "overflow" beyond the upper and lower mask edges, the image aspect needs to be defined. Then, the calculations are made for any adjustments up/down (for positioning the image if the important part needs to be moved back into view after the zoom change) so that the rotation center is properly placed. The same goes for the rotation center changes required for the side images when they're automatically zoomed.
I have a couple of other, more involved effects too, where 9 side by side layers are rotated together while maintaining sides to sides contact for all layers. Now, this isn't a case of moving along a path exactly but it is a major step in that direction. But, given what I've accomplished so far, the ability to do that isn't too far away. I just have to find the time and justification to do it. After all, I've only just created the actual zoom following effect yo see today based on what I created in the past couple of days. Only time will tell what else I come up with now! Surprising, I did not set to figure this stuff out ... it just developed out of my efforts to put figure a way to use the knowledge I gained by discovering how to coordinate rotation centers for multiple disparate layers.
Dale
- anitaemile
- Posts: 767
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:51 am
- Location: Dutch in Michigan
Re: Zoom Following while Rotating (A Reporting FIRST!)
I think there is a much easier way to accomplish the same effect when you make these masks in photoshop as png's with the same rotation center. I assume this effect created in producer is not an easy one to figure out, where it's a simple task in photoshop by placing a dot in the center of a layer and adding another dot just on the edge of the dot on another layer. By placing both png's in the slide and having the outside circle rotate ( and both layers zoom) you will achieve the same effect as this complicated method.
PS: the only problem would be the image following the mask while zooming out. It will be easy to determine the center of rotation for the image, but if zoomed in or /and out, the x and y coordinates would need to change for the image . Maybe Dale knows a way around it with his method?
Anita
PS: the only problem would be the image following the mask while zooming out. It will be easy to determine the center of rotation for the image, but if zoomed in or /and out, the x and y coordinates would need to change for the image . Maybe Dale knows a way around it with his method?
Anita
Re: Zoom Following while Rotating (A Reporting FIRST!)
You miss the point Anita. You can have the same rotation center easily on this effect if no size or location changes are made. When you change size, the rotation center changes as well. If you change position, the rotation center changes. You overly simplify a problem I've found a solution for. I've presented here a VERY SIMPLE aspect of the problem of maintaining the same relative distance between two layers that are changing size (one or more layers following the zoom of another) ... You'll note that I called it a rather "...simple demonstration..." right up front.
If this effect were really simple, it would have been discovered long ago. This particular effect, with the multiple layers going around a central layer, is actually pretty simple to accomplish ... if you know what you're doing. I've done the hard work to figure out how ProShow does some of its stuff. Too, I've found a way to automate the process so that I can use the exact same style using different image aspects. Further, the technique I've discovered is applicable to a wide range of uses. Some much more complicated than this. And, I didn't have to rely on an outside application to do it either.
What you don't seem to realize is that this is a FIRST in Producer. Until now, there was no known way to maintain the relative distance between multiple layers that were exactly following the zoom of another layer (or a ratio of it) without resorting to considerable effort under very controlled circumstances. It's also a 2nd way to do zoom following that may be easier to use than the first method (a technique I discovered almost exactly 2 years ago!).
Dale
PS Anita, if you observe the last, updated demo, you'll note that the flowers is a masked image. Both the mask and image are changing in size according to the size of the center circle. You'll note that the image appears static in the circle (but is rotating) ... the image is a portrait (2592x3872) in a 720x720 mask (all sized to a base of 20% and a scale of fill frame). Yes, I've found out how to adjust for the spacing of layers during zoom to maintain their distance (or change it as I see fit)... and I know how to coordinate the rotation centers of multiple layers to any screen coordinate. I'm still exploring the capabilities I've discovered to see where it leads me. This is one of those side benefits...
If this effect were really simple, it would have been discovered long ago. This particular effect, with the multiple layers going around a central layer, is actually pretty simple to accomplish ... if you know what you're doing. I've done the hard work to figure out how ProShow does some of its stuff. Too, I've found a way to automate the process so that I can use the exact same style using different image aspects. Further, the technique I've discovered is applicable to a wide range of uses. Some much more complicated than this. And, I didn't have to rely on an outside application to do it either.
What you don't seem to realize is that this is a FIRST in Producer. Until now, there was no known way to maintain the relative distance between multiple layers that were exactly following the zoom of another layer (or a ratio of it) without resorting to considerable effort under very controlled circumstances. It's also a 2nd way to do zoom following that may be easier to use than the first method (a technique I discovered almost exactly 2 years ago!).
Dale
PS Anita, if you observe the last, updated demo, you'll note that the flowers is a masked image. Both the mask and image are changing in size according to the size of the center circle. You'll note that the image appears static in the circle (but is rotating) ... the image is a portrait (2592x3872) in a 720x720 mask (all sized to a base of 20% and a scale of fill frame). Yes, I've found out how to adjust for the spacing of layers during zoom to maintain their distance (or change it as I see fit)... and I know how to coordinate the rotation centers of multiple layers to any screen coordinate. I'm still exploring the capabilities I've discovered to see where it leads me. This is one of those side benefits...
- anitaemile
- Posts: 767
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:51 am
- Location: Dutch in Michigan
Re: Zoom Following while Rotating (A Reporting FIRST!)
Yeah, you 're right about the center or rotation change for the image. The layers made in photoshop however will keep their same center or rotation while zoomed in or out or placed elsewhere. It's the image that has to follow the masks that has to obey the proshow rules. I have seen Pete do some styles with rotating circled images around a center image, but those don't zoom, which is where the problem is if getting this done in producer.
So.. where's the explanation so we can all use it, or won't there be one?
Anita
So.. where's the explanation so we can all use it, or won't there be one?
Anita
Re: Zoom Following while Rotating (A Reporting FIRST!)
You're doing a super job, Dale. All the mathematical calculations that go into things like this are time-consuming, but there's so much potential in it. You've sparked off all kinds of effects in my mind, effects I'm not sure I can accomplish, but now I at least know they're possible.
My hat's off to you!
Barbara
My hat's off to you!
Barbara
The Frame Locker - styles, transitions, frames, backgrounds, & more.
Subscribe to Frame Locker News for alerts to new products.
How-to's: ProShowThink
Subscribe to Frame Locker News for alerts to new products.
How-to's: ProShowThink
Re: Zoom Following while Rotating (A Reporting FIRST!)
Well, I just figured this thing out so it'll be a short while before I can write up the technique.
Basically tho (one technique) you're using a ratio from a fixed zoom to create a modifier constant. One thing you also need to realize is that a modifier constant changes the zoom by a percent of the base zoom for that layer.
So, if the zoom is 20 and you want to use a modifier to increase the zoom to 30 you would need a modifier value of 50. The formula is 20 + 20(x/100) = 30, where "x" is the percent of change (or modifier value). So, x= (30-20)/20 = 0.5. The modifier value is going to be the percent value vs the actual percent. So the modifier itself will be 0.5*100=50.
The rotation center change is another story and depends on a number of things. The simple method depends only on the pan-x value and the rotation center. If you have to calculate a rotation center change in the vertical, it's a bit more complicated. This might help understand the topic a bit more: http://fenimorephotovideos.com/blog/?page_id=360
It's not "easy" reading but the more you work through it the more it becomes understandable. It's a start, not definitive. There's a whole bunch more but this gets you started.
Dale
Basically tho (one technique) you're using a ratio from a fixed zoom to create a modifier constant. One thing you also need to realize is that a modifier constant changes the zoom by a percent of the base zoom for that layer.
So, if the zoom is 20 and you want to use a modifier to increase the zoom to 30 you would need a modifier value of 50. The formula is 20 + 20(x/100) = 30, where "x" is the percent of change (or modifier value). So, x= (30-20)/20 = 0.5. The modifier value is going to be the percent value vs the actual percent. So the modifier itself will be 0.5*100=50.
The rotation center change is another story and depends on a number of things. The simple method depends only on the pan-x value and the rotation center. If you have to calculate a rotation center change in the vertical, it's a bit more complicated. This might help understand the topic a bit more: http://fenimorephotovideos.com/blog/?page_id=360
It's not "easy" reading but the more you work through it the more it becomes understandable. It's a start, not definitive. There's a whole bunch more but this gets you started.
Dale
- anitaemile
- Posts: 767
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:51 am
- Location: Dutch in Michigan
Re: Zoom Following while Rotating (A Reporting FIRST!)
Dale,
Although I do understand how to work with these (ratio) percentage changes for the modifiers, the many ratio aspects for the images,and the different frame fillings in PSP have been too much a hassle for me ( and many I assume) when it comes to finding the right tools to work with rotation center synchronizing inside modifiers, . Great work to get into depth and coming up with some figures to use in modifiers. I hope we will soon find some info on how you got to synchronize images ( and masks) while zooming , rotating and changing position .
Anita
Although I do understand how to work with these (ratio) percentage changes for the modifiers, the many ratio aspects for the images,and the different frame fillings in PSP have been too much a hassle for me ( and many I assume) when it comes to finding the right tools to work with rotation center synchronizing inside modifiers, . Great work to get into depth and coming up with some figures to use in modifiers. I hope we will soon find some info on how you got to synchronize images ( and masks) while zooming , rotating and changing position .
Anita
Re: Zoom Following while Rotating (A Reporting FIRST!)
Hi Dale,
It's now my morning, and I went through the entire thread once again.
Definitely something to learn and put into practice.
But, first I would need the "magic formula" from you, because I'm awful at math, as you know
It's now my morning, and I went through the entire thread once again.
Definitely something to learn and put into practice.
But, first I would need the "magic formula" from you, because I'm awful at math, as you know
- seektheburd
- ProShow Hall of Fame
- Posts: 1422
- Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:12 pm
- Location: Texas
Re: Zoom Following while Rotating (A Reporting FIRST!)
Hi Dale,
Very interstering topic and thank you for sharing your experience with zoom modifiers. Definitely food for thought. Just like Mona, I will re-read to let it sink in once I get home from work. Smiles. Let's have fun!
Hugs, Stephanie
Very interstering topic and thank you for sharing your experience with zoom modifiers. Definitely food for thought. Just like Mona, I will re-read to let it sink in once I get home from work. Smiles. Let's have fun!
Hugs, Stephanie
Photodex Gallery: http://www.photodex.com/share/stephanieseek
HP Pavilion p6580t Desktop;Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit; i5-750 Quad-Core; 1.5GB NVIDIA GeForce GT 230.
Photodex Producer 5
Adobe Photoshop CS6
Pinnacle Studio 14 Ultimate Collection
HP Pavilion p6580t Desktop;Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit; i5-750 Quad-Core; 1.5GB NVIDIA GeForce GT 230.
Photodex Producer 5
Adobe Photoshop CS6
Pinnacle Studio 14 Ultimate Collection
19 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 40 guests