Making legs and arms move
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- nancyrbogen
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:58 am
- Location: NYC
Making legs and arms move
I have psds of a ballet dancer in various poses that I'll be using in a new show. Movement is limited, and while some of the dancers look fine, others are awkward. I tried doing some experiments with one: In my Producer show, she flies through the air and gets larger as she does so; I decided it would look a little better if her legs began closer together and separated somewhat as she flew.
I tried doing this in After Effects both with the normal method and with the Puppet tool (or Puppy tool, as I call it), but when I generated an avi, my figure came out on a black screen, which did not work.
I opened my psd in Photoshop and decided to cut one of the legs off and save it as a separate psd, and then in Producer open the leg-psd and the figure with one leg missing-psd and attach one to the other. I was therfeby able to move the severed leg closer to the intact one and then as the figure grew, so did the severed leg as it moved slightly apart from the attached one.
Has anyone had any experience doing this sort of thing? Or is this the beginning of something new and exciting?
I tried doing this in After Effects both with the normal method and with the Puppet tool (or Puppy tool, as I call it), but when I generated an avi, my figure came out on a black screen, which did not work.
I opened my psd in Photoshop and decided to cut one of the legs off and save it as a separate psd, and then in Producer open the leg-psd and the figure with one leg missing-psd and attach one to the other. I was therfeby able to move the severed leg closer to the intact one and then as the figure grew, so did the severed leg as it moved slightly apart from the attached one.
Has anyone had any experience doing this sort of thing? Or is this the beginning of something new and exciting?
Re: Making legs and arms move
I've done some animations with After Effects. I dabbled with the puppet tool but didn't find it very easy to use and the results were unsatisfactory. My animations were done with cartoon characters, not real people.
In this sample at around 1:01 the character is seen walking from a side view. The various body parts were made as separate png files and then parented to each other to create the walking effect. At around 1:43 the character turns so you see a back view of him walking. That one I actually drew frame by frame using a model as an example. I did one complete walking sequence, about 15 frames I think, and then used a looping expression in AE to have him walk continuously.
Pinhead Video 28MB, 3-1/2 min wmv, nothing offensive
If you're going to make an avi in AE you would usually have to add a background layer otherwise it comes out black as you found out. You can make an .mov file with transparency but PSP doesn't read the transparency so it's an exercise in futility.
Joe
In this sample at around 1:01 the character is seen walking from a side view. The various body parts were made as separate png files and then parented to each other to create the walking effect. At around 1:43 the character turns so you see a back view of him walking. That one I actually drew frame by frame using a model as an example. I did one complete walking sequence, about 15 frames I think, and then used a looping expression in AE to have him walk continuously.
Pinhead Video 28MB, 3-1/2 min wmv, nothing offensive
If you're going to make an avi in AE you would usually have to add a background layer otherwise it comes out black as you found out. You can make an .mov file with transparency but PSP doesn't read the transparency so it's an exercise in futility.
Joe
- nancyrbogen
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:58 am
- Location: NYC
Re: Making legs and arms move
I need the figures to move as transparencies. So am I on the right track with what I'm doing? Is there some possible future trouble I should be aware of in PSP? Have you ever tried what I did?
Nancy
Nancy
Re: Making legs and arms move
Oh okay, your main interest is in doing the transparency, more so than the movement itself. PSP doesn't recognize transparency in a video. So I've never tried to animate a figure directly in PSP. That is if I understand correctly what you're trying to do.
You could create your motion effects in AE and then also create an alpha mask in AE. People use masks in their shows here all the time. That's one way to eliminate the black background. Another way is by creating a png sequence but that would be more work than it's worth since the alpha mask accomplishes the same thing more easily.
If I'm not on the right track, you'll have to be more specific.
Joe
You could create your motion effects in AE and then also create an alpha mask in AE. People use masks in their shows here all the time. That's one way to eliminate the black background. Another way is by creating a png sequence but that would be more work than it's worth since the alpha mask accomplishes the same thing more easily.
If I'm not on the right track, you'll have to be more specific.
Joe
- trulytango
- Posts: 2234
- Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 8:19 am
- Location: UK
Re: Making legs and arms move
Hi Nancy... I wouldn't say this was new, but it is exciting once you get into it. I once created an entire skeleton - the bones being individual PNG files with transparency... and I had him go from a small heap of bones, to an upright full skeleton. Now this was a couple of Halloween's ago, and I have since changed my PC so the example is not immediately to hand. But I chopped my skeleton up in Photoshop and exported each section to use in PSP.
Lots of people here use simple animation techniques in their shows. The fact that PSP allows you to work with many layers, supports transparency in still images and utilise key framing, opens the door to a lot of fun stuff... and once you've mastered the basic concept you can go even further with modifiers, but they're a bit more of a learning curve.
Have fun!
Lots of people here use simple animation techniques in their shows. The fact that PSP allows you to work with many layers, supports transparency in still images and utilise key framing, opens the door to a lot of fun stuff... and once you've mastered the basic concept you can go even further with modifiers, but they're a bit more of a learning curve.
Have fun!
Windows 7 HP 64-bit, Intel i5 2500K Quad Core, 8GB RAM, 1.0GB Ge-Force NVIDIA GTX 560i, Adobe Photoshop CS5, Producer 6 (GPU Benchmark was 336, now 324), a big old Canon 20D and a funky Canon Powershot G15
- nancyrbogen
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:58 am
- Location: NYC
Re: Making legs and arms move
Thank you, both of you. Truly Tango, I looked at your Halloween animation, and it's really cool. I do something so different. Have a look, e.g., at the first 13 slides of my Black on Black / 13, which you can find in my Proshow Gallery but also on
http://vimeo.com/20804400
If you like, click on a heart, even post a reaction?
http://vimeo.com/20804400
If you like, click on a heart, even post a reaction?
- trulytango
- Posts: 2234
- Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 8:19 am
- Location: UK
Re: Making legs and arms move
Hi Nancy... I enjoyed your Blackbird poem/animation. It was well crafted.
Getting back to your original question re is 'this' a new idea/method? The use of layered, individual PNG elements to add animation effects in shows has been around for a long, long time... at one time only Producer would support images containing transparency, but nowadays PSG does too, so such effects are achievable by all. However, I think since the advent of the later versions of ProShow, which saw the introduction of slide styles and more recently, all the new transitions... we are just simply seeing less of it, and that's a shame. As you discovered, the results can be very creative.
Keep on doing what you do!
Iris
Getting back to your original question re is 'this' a new idea/method? The use of layered, individual PNG elements to add animation effects in shows has been around for a long, long time... at one time only Producer would support images containing transparency, but nowadays PSG does too, so such effects are achievable by all. However, I think since the advent of the later versions of ProShow, which saw the introduction of slide styles and more recently, all the new transitions... we are just simply seeing less of it, and that's a shame. As you discovered, the results can be very creative.
Keep on doing what you do!
Iris
Windows 7 HP 64-bit, Intel i5 2500K Quad Core, 8GB RAM, 1.0GB Ge-Force NVIDIA GTX 560i, Adobe Photoshop CS5, Producer 6 (GPU Benchmark was 336, now 324), a big old Canon 20D and a funky Canon Powershot G15
- pilotdan63
- Honorary ProShow PHD
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:49 pm
- Location: Spanaway, Washington
Re: Making legs and arms move
Nancy . . . as Iris states: layered PNG transparency special effects in Gold and Producer have been available for a long time. That said, it does take an external photo editing program like Photoshop (I use the free Paint.Net and the Gimp) to create your PNG "cut out" transparency elements which are then imported into your Proshow project where you can use your layer movement control "effects tab" to animate your PNG cut out as you desire.
I believe PNG special effects really do add an exciting element of interest to slide show projects and I try to create as many as I can for each show that I do. Here are a few examples of PNG movement effects from some of my previous slide show projects:
Fred U. Harris Lodge 30th Anniversary: http://www.photodex.com/share/pilotdan/8w97cmg4
Argosy Arrives Again: http://www.photodex.com/share/pilotdan/98bw8mg4
Across The Lake: http://www.photodex.com/share/pilotdan/mk8acmg4
A Perfect Winter: http://www.photodex.com/share/pilotdan/74c89mg4
Hope Valley: http://www.photodex.com/share/pilotdan/7kdw8mg4
Adventures In Saudi: http://www.photodex.com/share/pilotdan/awmb9mg4
Ed's Bug Tales: http://www.photodex.com/share/pilotdan/4pdm9mg4
As you watch these shows you will see where I have used PNG transparencies to create movement for many of my slide show picture elements.
Good luck
Dan
I believe PNG special effects really do add an exciting element of interest to slide show projects and I try to create as many as I can for each show that I do. Here are a few examples of PNG movement effects from some of my previous slide show projects:
Fred U. Harris Lodge 30th Anniversary: http://www.photodex.com/share/pilotdan/8w97cmg4
Argosy Arrives Again: http://www.photodex.com/share/pilotdan/98bw8mg4
Across The Lake: http://www.photodex.com/share/pilotdan/mk8acmg4
A Perfect Winter: http://www.photodex.com/share/pilotdan/74c89mg4
Hope Valley: http://www.photodex.com/share/pilotdan/7kdw8mg4
Adventures In Saudi: http://www.photodex.com/share/pilotdan/awmb9mg4
Ed's Bug Tales: http://www.photodex.com/share/pilotdan/4pdm9mg4
As you watch these shows you will see where I have used PNG transparencies to create movement for many of my slide show picture elements.
Good luck
Dan
- nancyrbogen
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:58 am
- Location: NYC
Re: Making legs and arms move
Many thanks, Dan, and I will look-listen tomorrow night when I'm little less tired. I still do not understand the difference between psd files, which is what I've been using, and pngs--but I guess I'll soon see.
FYI, when I was creating my show Black on Black /13, I called Proshow Tech support about something, and techy Amanda opened up that show and gave a big WOW! when she saw the blackbird's eyeball zoom around the slide and end by popping into the blackbird's eye socket. That was a psd zooming around and then popping into another psd. Can I do better than that with pngs?
See, with audio on:
http://vimeo.com/20804400
Best,
Nancy
FYI, when I was creating my show Black on Black /13, I called Proshow Tech support about something, and techy Amanda opened up that show and gave a big WOW! when she saw the blackbird's eyeball zoom around the slide and end by popping into the blackbird's eye socket. That was a psd zooming around and then popping into another psd. Can I do better than that with pngs?
See, with audio on:
http://vimeo.com/20804400
Best,
Nancy
- trulytango
- Posts: 2234
- Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 8:19 am
- Location: UK
Re: Making legs and arms move
nancyrbogen wrote:That was a psd zooming around and then popping into another psd. Can I do better than that with pngs?
Nancy, Photoshop is your tool of choice, and by having your layers as individual PSD files you will have found it fairly easy to reassemble the bird-complete-with-its-eyes for the ending point of the slide you mentioned. Full layer PNG files (with transparency) would have given you the same result. Though unless you are familiar with saving full Photoshop layers as PNGs, there's no obvious benefit when creating fairly simple graphics like the bird, so I suggest you stick to what you know. I'm only saying that because it's hard to tell, from what you have written, what level of experience you have in working with multiple layered documents in Photoshop, nor what your workflow actually comprises.
In short, PNG is simply another widely recognised file format that supports transparency. Not all PNGs contain transparency though, and it is my understanding that such PNGs are better quality than JPEGS... and in general, PSD files tend to be far larger in size.
Iris
Windows 7 HP 64-bit, Intel i5 2500K Quad Core, 8GB RAM, 1.0GB Ge-Force NVIDIA GTX 560i, Adobe Photoshop CS5, Producer 6 (GPU Benchmark was 336, now 324), a big old Canon 20D and a funky Canon Powershot G15
- nancyrbogen
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:58 am
- Location: NYC
Re: Making legs and arms move
Iris,
Some of the slides of the show that I’m working on right now, which all contain a ballet dancer in different poses, are far more complex than the one you saw. For instance, in one scene, the dancer begins small and invisible and becomes visible and larger as she flies through the air. Her legs are parted. I want them to begin close together and part as she flies and becomes larger and fully visible.
Before I discovered the png, I had her as layer on a transparent background as a psd file. To make the leg move, I decided to cut it off and create a separate psd with it on a transparent background, then bring the two psd files into Producer as separate layers and create the effect I wanted there.
Can I do any better re this with a png file or files?
Nancy
Some of the slides of the show that I’m working on right now, which all contain a ballet dancer in different poses, are far more complex than the one you saw. For instance, in one scene, the dancer begins small and invisible and becomes visible and larger as she flies through the air. Her legs are parted. I want them to begin close together and part as she flies and becomes larger and fully visible.
Before I discovered the png, I had her as layer on a transparent background as a psd file. To make the leg move, I decided to cut it off and create a separate psd with it on a transparent background, then bring the two psd files into Producer as separate layers and create the effect I wanted there.
Can I do any better re this with a png file or files?
Nancy
Re: Making legs and arms move
I think an easier work flow for you would be to work with one psd file at the beginning, in photoshop, then output two png files for use in Producer.
Start with your dancer as one layer, use the lasso tool to select the leg that will rotate and create a new layer from that (CTRL-J). Tweak the two layers to "fine-tune" the edges (use a layer mask for that). Save the file as a psd, then go to File/Scripts/Export Layers to Files and select png-24 as your output. That will give you 2 png files with transparency, one of the body minus a leg, and the other just the leg.
I watched two of your shows on vimeo and I would say your skill level is pretty high in photoshop and probably After Effects. I was very impressed by the complexity of some of the compositions. And you must be a real patron of the arts. Putting your skills with PSP together with your love of the arts is going to be a killer combination. I look to forward to seeing more of your work.
Personally, and this is just my opinion, some of the things you want to accomplish would be done more easily using 3rd party software (After Effects) than trying to do it in PSP. I won't get into the details but suffice it to say I've tried things in both apps and always fall back to AE when I have to mess with complex motions and anchor points (center of rotation in PSP )
Joe
Start with your dancer as one layer, use the lasso tool to select the leg that will rotate and create a new layer from that (CTRL-J). Tweak the two layers to "fine-tune" the edges (use a layer mask for that). Save the file as a psd, then go to File/Scripts/Export Layers to Files and select png-24 as your output. That will give you 2 png files with transparency, one of the body minus a leg, and the other just the leg.
I watched two of your shows on vimeo and I would say your skill level is pretty high in photoshop and probably After Effects. I was very impressed by the complexity of some of the compositions. And you must be a real patron of the arts. Putting your skills with PSP together with your love of the arts is going to be a killer combination. I look to forward to seeing more of your work.
Personally, and this is just my opinion, some of the things you want to accomplish would be done more easily using 3rd party software (After Effects) than trying to do it in PSP. I won't get into the details but suffice it to say I've tried things in both apps and always fall back to AE when I have to mess with complex motions and anchor points (center of rotation in PSP )
Joe
- nancyrbogen
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:58 am
- Location: NYC
Re: Making legs and arms move
Joe, I’m truly grateful to you. One thing still needs clarification. What is the real difference between my using a png-24 as opposed to a psd in Producer? If it’s a matter of file size, it really doesn’t matter because I have 8 gigs of ram and am getting more yet, and then everything gets mashed down going into Vimeo.
Best,
Nancy
PS I’m so beholden to all of you, not only for your help and guidance but also appreciation of my work that I’m going to make a contribution to Proshow Enthusiasts–-as soon as I figure out how to do it .
Best,
Nancy
PS I’m so beholden to all of you, not only for your help and guidance but also appreciation of my work that I’m going to make a contribution to Proshow Enthusiasts–-as soon as I figure out how to do it .
Re: Making legs and arms move
nancyrbogen wrote:Joe, I’m truly grateful to you. One thing still needs clarification. What is the real difference between my using a png-24 as opposed to a psd in Producer? If it’s a matter of file size, it really doesn’t matter because I have 8 gigs of ram and am getting more yet, and then everything gets mashed down going into Vimeo.
Best,
Nancy
When you get down to brass tacks, there is no difference between using a png or a psd in ProShow. For me it's a matter of work flow. If I create a psd in photoshop I will save it as a psd first and then output the layers as png's. Then I can always go back to photoshop, edit the psd, and create a new set of png files if I want to experiment. If you're used to working with psd's then sticking with them won't affect anything in PSP.
Be careful if you're planning to increase your RAM. I would assume from 8GB to 12GB. It's ideal to have matched sets of RAM sticks, in other words, buy all 12GB at one time in one kit. If you can't do that, like in your case adding another 4GB, at least get it from the same manufacturer. All the sticks in a kit are matched electronically by the various manufacturers to give the best performance and reduce the chances of BSOD's and crashes.
To donate to the forum, scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page, you'll see the button to donate.
Joe
- nancyrbogen
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:58 am
- Location: NYC
Re: Making legs and arms move
Many thanks again, Joe. I passed the info re ram to my computer man, who installs.
And yes, I found, the donate button all by myself and took care of it.
My best to you,
Nancy
And yes, I found, the donate button all by myself and took care of it.
My best to you,
Nancy
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