Questions about starting a slideshow business - The music

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BarryB1164

Questions about starting a slideshow business - The music

Postby BarryB1164 » Wed May 17, 2006 10:10 am

I know that a similar thread already exists; however it seems different than what I want to do.

I'd like to create slideshows that a customer asks for. Someone wants a slideshow of kid's graduation. They would provide the photos and tell me what music THEY want. Or, I'd pick something appropriate.

From the messages seen on this board, I am thinking of charging .50 per photo. The real question is, how do I go about the music portion. I am willing to pay $1 for the desired song via Itunes and pass the costs to customer. What I don't know what is involved here. I'm not looking to make one show and sell it to many people. The way I'm looking at it, the customer bought the song.

How does this type of business work? What are other costs that I should consider?

FYI: I am on fixed income and am looking at a secondary source of income. If you want to get some ideas of who I am, please feel free to look at my site listed in the sig.

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Postby JB » Wed May 17, 2006 12:17 pm

I am not a lawyer nor have I ever played one on TV. However, in response to your implied question as to the legality of using copyrighted music as described, I am 99.9% confident you would be in violation of the law. That being said, the chances of you being taken to court by the copyright holder are about the same as winning the lottery on two consecutive days.

BarryB1164

Postby BarryB1164 » Wed May 17, 2006 12:45 pm

That is the part, I don't get. It is the customer buying the song and I'm just the middle person. Of course, I have no intention to reuse an already purchased song. That would be unfair to the musician.

sumgrl19

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Postby sumgrl19 » Wed May 17, 2006 12:49 pm

I have been facing the same problem. I decided to go ahead and purchase some Royalty Free music Cd's. I think that I will mainly use the Royalty Free music unless the customer supplies me with a Cd. I really don't know if that makes it necessarily legal...but it must be better than downloading the songs and using them. At least, I would feel better about it.

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Postby Jeep » Wed May 17, 2006 1:14 pm

The next problem is that this kind of music (iTunes or similar) are unusable in any slideshow software due to their protection system, and they generally can't be read by other users or converted in another format.
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Postby JB » Wed May 17, 2006 3:46 pm

The purchaser of the cd or download is not significant. How it is used IS important. Using a customer owned piece of copyrighted music would be no different than using one you purchased.

Do a google search of copyright law, look at "fair use" for starters.

http://www.copyright.gov/ is a place to start.

It's really too complex to invest much time in learning the law. That is why people hire lawyers. You may want to think up ways that would circumvent the law but would only be fooling yourself. This reminds of a line from a Simon & Garfunkel song The Boxer: "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." Hope the quote is correct, haven't heard the song in many years.

As far as DRM on itunes is concerned, there are many ways around that. Search the net if you want to find them. Of course, removing DRM is also not legal.

Some of these comments may not apply in countries other than the US.

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i Tunes

Postby trulytango » Mon May 22, 2006 11:07 pm

Jeep wrote:The next problem is that this kind of music (iTunes or similar) are unusable in any slideshow software due to their protection system, and they generally can't be read by other users or converted in another format.


There is a way of using a track bought via iTunes in a slideshow... create an audio CD (iTunes will do this for you) and then rip the track to MP3 using Windows Media Player 10 or similar - I found a neat little programme called 'Switch' that does the job perfectly. Its a bit of a nuisance having to use a blank CD per track as iTunes automatically 'closes' the disc and thereafter its unusable for something else; but if it means getting the right choice of music then its worth the effort and cost of a blank CD?

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Postby briancbb » Tue May 23, 2006 12:45 am

Trulytango wrote:
Its a bit of a nuisance having to use a blank CD per track as iTunes automatically 'closes' the disc


I'd probably use a rewritable CD rather than a blank per tune.

Brian

lsheppard

Postby lsheppard » Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:50 am

I ran a mobile music company for several years. (Canned music for weddings, dances, etc). Anytime you (as a business owner) make money (or not) by using copyrighted music, you must pay royalties. I also ran movie theatres and had to pay royalties to ASCAP and BMI for the fact that the movies we were playing had music in them... fees over and above the percentages we paid to the movie distributors for the movie itself.

The reality is that the fees are not unreasonable. I suspect they will be higher now, than they used to be, but for example we paid $1.00 per seat per year for the right to play music in the theatres. Considering we made thousands of dollars per seat per year, it was not an exhorbitant rate. Similarly I was required to pay $1.00 per booking for my canned music business. I charged $250.00 per booking.. again, not a terrible price to be fully legal. What used to irk me was the number of competitors who were out there that didn't bother to make themselves legal.

I guess what I am saying is that the Music industry is out to make money too.. They are more than happy to have you promote their music as long as you have paid the broadcasting royalties (over and above the retail cost of the original) All it takes is a call to ASCAP and/or BMI (they probably have different names by now) to find out the appropriate royalties and how to pay them.

Add the cost of the royalties to your fees and everyone is happy. The client because you can use the music they've asked for, the RIAA because you've paid for your music, and the Artist because he/she has been paid for their work. (although I have no idea how money filters down to the artist from royalty fees!) You are the happiest of all because you've built a legitimate business for yourself.

Leigh
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fstop

Postby fstop » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:17 am

Leigh: You wouldn't happen to have the phone numbers to ASCAP or BMI would you?

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Postby weldr » Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:37 pm

I've been to both ASCAP and BMI music sites and couldn't find the info for situations like ours. I'd be happy to sell 5 or 6 copies of each show. Would be worth the possible conflict to pay a royalty and not worry. What are the 'odds' of Apple records coning after me because I used a Beatles song on a DVD? Any help dealing with the two big companies would help a lot od us. Thanks, Don

Roytp

Postby Roytp » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:02 pm

The more I look into this the greater the problem seems to be.
I wondered if it was legally ok for me to purchase say mp3 files via the internet on my customer’s behalf and then use them on their DVD. This is what Photodex tell us, that we can use our own recordings for our personal use, so, if our customer buys the recording via us aren’t they doing what we can do?

It’s time the music industry caught up with the advances in what small businesses can now achieve and help us rather than hinder us.
This is a problem that will not go away.

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Fair Use, etc

Postby VidQueen » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:04 pm

...I really shouldn't be jumpiing into this, but....

I went the "Royalty" route when I started my business six years ago. Let's just suffice it to say; it's practically impossible. It isn't always obvious who owns a particular song, it's not necessarily the artist. After spending hours tracking down WHO actually owned a song several years ago, I finally got to talk to a lady at the production company who owned the rights. Here's what she told me:

They are mostly concerned with usage and copies (how are you using thier song and how many copies are you making?). The video I was producing at the time was for a lady's 80th birthday and they wanted one copy. The very nice lady at the other end of the phone got quite irrate with me for wasting her time. Technically, yes, she said, I was supposed to pay for the right to use that song, but the amount of time and paperwork on thier part for what I was doing would make them lose money; they had much bigger fish to fry than me. She told me that it wouldn't be worth it for them to pursue monies for such a project unless over 200 copies were sold.

So, to this point I have a disclaimer at the beginning of every video stating that the client has complied with the Fair Use Act by producing this (1) personal video that is (2) not for resale (3) never to be broadcast (4) never to be shown at a public performance, weddings are private, and (5) not to be mass duplicated. I also never profide music for my clients. If they want a particular song, they must buy it, giving due proceeds to the musicians. Does this protect me against the law, no. Does it give me brownie points to a judge who might have to hear my case, a little. Am I worried about being sued, I don't lose sleep at night.

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Postby briancbb » Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:24 am

vidqueen

That is a most sensible answer. My father was in the 'film' business many years ago (he also died a number of years back) so I am talking long ago. These films were shown at private and public performances. It was the same at that time only large scale production and viewing was worth the paperwork involved.

I feel that you have earned 'brownie points', by the inclusion of a disclaimer to be included at the end, or beginning, of a show and ensuring that the music is provided by the client.

Brian

Roytp

Postby Roytp » Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:08 am

Thank you for the info. I agree with the last posting, very sensible reply.

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