Contract

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Contract

Postby czali » Mon May 07, 2007 6:13 am

Does anyone have an example of a contract I could use for a customer? This would be for the creation of a slideshow. I have not had anyone sign anything yet and it makes me a little nervous.
Thanks,

Colleen

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Postby KellyInAz » Mon May 07, 2007 6:53 am

I've never used one. Not that it is a bad idea, I just haven't felt the need. I'll be interested to see what other folks do.

Kelly

dnavarrojr

Postby dnavarrojr » Sat May 12, 2007 3:13 am

I highly recommend the book "Business Contract Kit for Dummies". It has a number of useful agreements and contracts that you can personalize for your needs.

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Postby czali » Sat May 12, 2007 6:46 am

Thanks for the idea I will check it out.

Colleen

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Postby DickK » Sat May 12, 2007 7:20 am

I'm surprised that someone in the business hasn't responded with some info, tho' I'm not there is a lot of contracts information available on line. And there are books specifically written to help photographers deal with the legal issues in their business. I think much of that would be applicable to your situation. Here are a couple links to get you started:

http://www.industrycontracts.com/produc ... ucts_id=60

http://www.proposalkit.com/htm/photogra ... t_pack.htm

http://www.nppa.org/professional_develo ... racts.html

www.thebekkaffect.com/photographercontract.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1584281480

This is interesting and maybe helpful even if not directly so
http://provider.com/contracts.htm

The major problem isn't that there's no info out there, there's too much and digging through it is tedious. To be sure you understand the extent to which your interests are protected you'll need to ask a lawyer with contract law experience to review the document.

Dick
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle ((PSG, PSE & Fuji HS20 user)) Presentation Impact Blog

dnavarrojr

Postby dnavarrojr » Sat May 12, 2007 9:14 am

DickK wrote:To be sure you understand the extent to which your interests are protected you'll need to ask a lawyer with contract law experience to review the document.


Very true indeed. When I modified some of the contracts from the book I mentioned, I took them to a lawyer to review. Since I had a document already "done" and I only wanted it reviewed and maybe modified slightly, the fees were WAY WAY lower than if I had asked him to draw one up from scratch. In fact, I traded services with the lawyer. :)

images-that-move

Postby images-that-move » Sat May 12, 2007 12:33 pm

I use two different contracts depending on the client... for consumers it is a very simple description of services. Main item of importance is that I ask to retain all rights to the creative work and can create derivative works without restrictions (and yes that includes the clients material unless they are covered by other copyright -- i.e., another professional photographer’s work, but to even use other professionals materials I require written permission or proof the client has usage rights and can give me the rights in my contract)....The language allows me to use the created work or derivative work in any manner I deem appropriate (even commercially). I’ve only had one person to ever have a problem with the language and you guessed it…. He was an attorney….

The second contract is for business clients (includes non-profits)…. This one is a bit more complicated and has language that varies depending on the project. It also has a general description of services. Ownership and usage language is where it gets tricky. I generally take the stand that I retain all rights of the creative work (but that often gets shot down), to where we have joint ownership (meaning I may use the work in other projects but restrict any usage that could identify the client or substantially resemble the initial created work)… a modified joint ownership is the one that is most often settled on but is complicated by pre-existing works (either mine or client materials)and the ultimate usage of the work (is it going to be broadcasted, just internal use, sold, etc., this area is important because different venues may dictate different terms).

Here is my bottom line suggestion for contracts… for consumers… a simple contract with ownership and usage of materials rights defined is often sufficient (and you could grab one from a book and modify)… however if you are doing commercial work I would highly suggest writing out your requirements in non-legal language – just your intent of (what do you want to own when all is said and done, how are you going to handle pre-existing materials – which can consist of your materials and the clients – I often use pre-existing materials that I have done in other projects or have bought, i.e, royalty-free music / graphics --- bottom line you need to think through each component of your show and be able to state your intent/desire with that item…) … Then take that to an attorney have them help you create a contract…. But beware it is not cheap… and be prepared to understand the issues so you can negotiate without always running back to your legal advisor (be warned most companies want to negotiate contracts – I find the small ones don’t care as much … they will take what you offer .. in most instances).

Here is an example of the commercial contract issue… I did a show that used some licensed graphics and music… client wanted full rights to the show and I retain nothing (and would not give on that either)… well that changed how I could create my show… I could not use the licensed items because I could not transfer full rights to the client (even though they were not going to “disassembleâ€

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Postby DickK » Sat May 12, 2007 4:39 pm

Bob --

I think I'd have a problem with your consumer contract too. Let's say I give you photos to do a slideshow with. The language you allude to appears to transfer ownership of and copyright for my images to you and then allow you to do anything you please with them and the resulting slideshow afterward. If that's true, then I'd not agree to such one sided terms or did I misunderstand something here?

Dick
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle ((PSG, PSE & Fuji HS20 user)) Presentation Impact Blog

images-that-move

Postby images-that-move » Sun May 13, 2007 1:29 am

Hi Dick!!! Hope all is well,

Probably didn't do a good job in explaining.... original creator of the work keeps the copyright/ownership but does "license" me (give me the rights) to use the items without restriction... but ownership of copyright would be retained by you (or the person that created the item). For example if I spend a great deal of time manipulating an image to incorporate an effect into a show (we could use a very simple example of taking a color image transitioned to b&w or some other composited image then I would need the rights to the original image to be able to show that "technique" using those images to other clients or venues... and of course it is the more intense image manipulations that matter most to me).

What's funny is the attorney that had a problem did not have an issue with ownership (or more clearly stated as the unrestricted usage licensing).... he just wanted to be compensated if I used the pictures for a commercial purpose (in other words, he wanted to set up some type of royalty system)... We actually modified the ownership issue to avoid most of that.... I never ended up doing his job because he could not give me written proof that he had appropriate rights to some professionally created work that he wanted to use in the show... (struck me funny that he wanted to restrict his items but was willing to ignore the professional's rights)...

I understand some folks may have a problem with my "licensing" language but depending on the job I've always been willing to negotiate....(and it is rare a consumer client ever questions the contract ... very rare indeed...). I find most consumer clients really never bother to read the contract (even when I encourage them or walk them through it and point out some of the key items)... commercial folks are a different issue all togehter...

The language, admittledly, does lean to beneifit me more by giving broad rights, but I do not take over the ownership of copyright nor restrict what the originator can do with their items.

I can hit this area probably too hard sometimes.... I guess it goes back to my days negotiating software development contracts and all of the intellectual property rights issues I encountered...

Take care!

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Postby DickK » Sun May 13, 2007 9:25 am

Bob -- gotcha. Understood now. Yeah, I learned the hard way about not reading contracts, so I'd be one of those rare ones you'd be negotiating with :) I understand the need for you to gain or retain some rights over your product and there's room to discuss both what the "product" is and what those rights would be. And yes, that is ironic about the lawyer but somehow I don't find it all that surprising. <fill in your favorite lawyer joke here>

images-that-move wrote:I can hit this area probably too hard sometimes.... I guess it goes back to my days negotiating software development contracts and all of the intellectual property rights issues I encountered...
Take care!


Hmmmm... seems you learned these lessons the same way I did. I've been on both sides of that process and learned enough to know there's no such thing as an absolute in the IP business and that that common sense has nothing to do with the law.

Dick
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle ((PSG, PSE & Fuji HS20 user)) Presentation Impact Blog

images-that-move

Postby images-that-move » Sun May 13, 2007 2:29 pm

I agree there .... contracts, law, attorney, ... common sense ... naw... can't mix that last one in a great deal of the time.... A group I worked with said that as soon as something started to make sense we knew we had it wrong.

With my "exception" once the "why" is explained most folks get it and deal pretty well with the terms. But then again modifying them is always an option.

It is funny how complex the issues are once you start to think them through... especially when we are taking other materials and creating something unique..

Take care (as always fun discussion)...

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Postby DickK » Sun May 13, 2007 4:46 pm

I think the important points here for anyone in a business where this applies, are:

-- most consumers won't be knowledgeable enough to ask the right questions but you have to be
-- a written contract is essential, even if its a simple one, to protect yourself

If its a hobby then don't worry too much but if its a business, then you have something at stake that needs protection and sometime, someone is going to challenge you. Remember Murphy: If it can go wrong, it will and at the worst time.

Dick
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle ((PSG, PSE & Fuji HS20 user)) Presentation Impact Blog

Cindy

Postby Cindy » Mon May 14, 2007 3:41 am

Contracts, legal jargon, etc. don't mix well with creative folks like us - it is just hard to think that way!!!

Warm Regards to all,

shoebox

Postby shoebox » Mon May 21, 2007 2:11 pm

Colleen,
On my site is a copy of the "Client" agreement that I use. I've not had any issues with it or any problems with the customers signing it.

http://www.shoeboxcreations.com/OrderForm.pdf

Thanks

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Postby Yanis » Wed May 23, 2007 5:47 am

shoebox wrote:Colleen,
On my site is a copy of the "Client" agreement that I use. I've not had any issues with it or any problems with the customers signing it.

http://www.shoeboxcreations.com/OrderForm.pdf

Thanks


Greetings Eli,

Did you use a lawyer to write up your contract?

Peace,
Yanis :D

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