How are you selling DVDs?

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How are you selling DVDs?

Postby jules » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:32 pm

I've recently discovered ProShow for making my slideshows and would like to use it to sell slideshows as part of the services I offer in my home business.

However, what I don't understand is how so many people say they sell DVDs to their clients, when all DVD output produced by PSG/PSP use the MPEG-2 video standard. The legal notices (something everyone agrees to when they download the program) state the output is not for commercial use unless you get a license from MPEG LA. Do all photographers pay for this when they sell DVDs to their brides?

So for business purposes, the only way I can see providing a client a show would be as VCD, EXE, Web show (which use the MPEG 1 video standard).

Can someone tell me if I'm misunderstanding something?

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Postby nannybear » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:19 pm

Ok, I have to admit that I don't read the fine print! :oops: When I looked at the site and the description of the program they didn't mention that, silly me! Good point to bring up and I am sure Brian or Paul will have an answer. Ok guys, what do you think?

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Postby pd » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:28 pm

Thanks Nannybear for having so much faith in me. Unfortunetly I am not in the Photography business and thus unable to help.
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Paul

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Postby cjdnzl » Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:27 am

You could well ask the same question about copyrighted music ...

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Postby briancbb » Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:56 am

Jan

I am also not a professional and do not sell Proshow DVD's.

It seems strange that MPEG2 is an ISO Standard but nees a licence to use it.

I am one who also does not read the agreement on software that I have purchased when I load it :oops: I would think that I could use the program output however I liked. It would be like using Microsoft Publisher and not being able to print and distribute the output!

I agree cjd that there are many 'grey' areas on copyright music, this is why many people use customer supplied music or noncopyright tracks. (Customer supplied as the customer can copy for their own personal use ... how legal is this).

Not having the licence agreement available at the moment I would be pleased if Jules would 'cut and paste' the applicable section.

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Postby jules » Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:10 am

<<Not having the licence agreement available at the moment I would be pleased if Jules would 'cut and paste' the applicable section.>>

It's #15 in the User Agreement:
ANY USE OF THIS PRODUCT OTHER THAN CONSUMER PERSONAL USE IN ANY MANNER THAT COMPLIES WITH THE MPEG-2 STANDARD FOR ENCODING VIDEO INFORMATION FOR PACKAGED MEDIA IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED WITHOUT A LICENSE UNDER APPLICABLE PATENTS IN THE MPEG-2 PATENT PORTFOLIO, WHICH LICENSE IS AVAILABLE FROM MPEG LA, L.L.C., 250 STEELE STREET, SUITE 300, DENVER, COLORADO 80206.

This is found in both PSG & Producer. I find this disappointing since one has to pay so much money to buy Producer. Photodex is marketing it to Professionals - and you can't even sell your work that you create. The only DVD you are allowed to create is your own promotional DVD.

I'm glad I have not bought Producer. I think ProShow Gold is an excellent product, but for business purposes I will have to look at other applications.

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Postby Jeep » Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:17 am

Jules,
Photodex and MPEG are 2 different entities. The first one provides you with a software to create slideshows, the second one provides you with the ability of seeing video files under their own standard. When you buy ProShow you pay for creating slideshows as executable, web streaming, screensavers,.. not for selling a licensed derived product. This is as clear as when you buy a sheet of paper and a pen you pay for being able to write a message, if you want to make photocopies of it, you will have to pay for these copies. I do know that my demonstration is quite trivial but it is just to give you a comparison.
The problem is quite identical when you use a music file, if it's for your own use, it is entirely free. As soon as you include it in a show that you will sell, you will have royalties to pay.
Sincerely, if you use ProShow professionaly you may include these fees in your "Amount to be paid" No ? :D
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Postby jules » Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:28 am

Thanks for the analogy, Jeep. Understand it perfectly. What I don't understand on the Photodex website is how they are marketing Producer: "that help you produce stunning shows for profit"; or that they showcase photographers using DVDs in their packages to their customer (the bride). You're right about passing on the MPEG2 license fees to the client, but it's a lot of paperwork to go through. Do Vegas or Premiere have this limitation? (I know, those are mainly programs for video)

Proshow looks awesome, but think it will have to be only used for my own promotional purposes - and I look foward to "Wow-ing" my customers with shows of my own work.

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Postby briancbb » Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:58 am

Gee, I'm no lawyer, but here is the link for anyone interested :roll:

Looks like the cost is $0.03 per copy, not likely to break the bank.

http://www.mpegla.com/m2/index.cfm

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Postby nannybear » Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:59 pm

Hi Brian and Paul,
See guys I knew one of you would come through with some information!
Hi all!
I went to the site and holy what a lot of mumbo jumbo. Didn't see how to apply for a license ( at least not in English) and the cost is minimal as Brian said. I am safe so far as I am just building the business and have been doing free shows to get the word out. As for music the client has to own it before I will put it in their show and I think that is acceptable, correct? If anyone figures out how to apply for the license let me know. I will do some research myself as well and report back anything I find. I do have a valid business registration ready to go so that is taken care of.
Well cheers and happy summer :wink: Jan
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Postby marmart » Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:13 pm

Not to make light of something, that obvisouly to some is a serious matter, but this reminds me of our Website that has a copyright notice at the bottom of each page, how in the world would I ever find out if someone has copied something from it and if they did, what the heck would I do? Sue them? For what? The cost of a lawyer would supersede any monetary benefit I could ever hope to gain. Quite frankly, this is one of those itsy bitsy grey areas that only someone with an extremely analytical mind would even notice, let alone think someone might come after you because you sold a slideshow to somebody. I am sorry, but this kind of discussion just makes me want to scream - GET A LIFE!!!

PS sorry, guess I'm having a bad day

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Postby nannybear » Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:49 pm

marmart wrote:Not to make light of something, that obvisouly to some is a serious matter, but this reminds me of our Website that has a copyright notice at the bottom of each page, how in the world would I ever find out if someone has copied something from it and if they did, what the heck would I do? Sue them? For what? The cost of a lawyer would supersede any monetary benefit I could ever hope to gain. Quite frankly, this is one of those itsy bitsy grey areas that only someone with an extremely analytical mind would even notice, let alone think someone might come after you because you sold a slideshow to somebody. I am sorry, but this kind of discussion just makes me want to scream - GET A LIFE!!!

PS sorry, guess I'm having a bad day


To an extent I agree, but I am also a tad paranoid. I am also a musician so the whole copyright thing does mean something to me, but unless someone is really ripping off my tunes, copying them for others only makes my work that much more known and I don't care. That said they did bring up a good point and that is that I am guilty of saying "I accept" and not really reading what I have just accepted! you are right, in my little world it is doubtful that anyone would "come after me" but still had to check it out as I had failed to read......

Don't scream, have a margarita and chill, it is after all just a discussion and life changing in anyway.....

Cheers and have a great weekend!! :lol:

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Postby nannybear » Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:50 pm

p.s meant " n"ot life changing...
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Postby briancbb » Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:13 am

Hi all

I'm in agreement with Mary, we should just forget it. It would seem to be the same conditions apply for any program where you burn a DVD and sell it. Just look at the list of Licence holders, all the well known software producers are on there, and the same condition applies in all their User Agreements.

I don't think they will come looking for the person producing 10 copies for the 'guy up the road'. It is the 'bulk reproduction' houses that are of interest.

As an aside even Microsoft are/have been sued for not paying the fees for XBox which is capable DVD MPEG playing 8)

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Postby jules » Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:59 am

marmart wrote:Not to make light of something, that obvisouly to some is a serious matter, but this reminds me of our Website that has a copyright notice at the bottom of each page, how in the world would I ever find out if someone has copied something from it and if they did, what the heck would I do? Sue them? For what? The cost of a lawyer would supersede any monetary benefit I could ever hope to gain. Quite frankly, this is one of those itsy bitsy grey areas that only someone with an extremely analytical mind would even notice, let alone think someone might come after you because you sold a slideshow to somebody. I am sorry, but this kind of discussion just makes me want to scream - GET A LIFE!!!

PS sorry, guess I'm having a bad day


This kind of response is disappointing. For my first post to this board, I felt the replies from other people were very nice/helpful, except this one. I was taught if you don't have something nice to say, then don't say anything at all (or at least try to find a way to say it tactfully). I am one that takes my business seriously, even though I may be a very small business. I am also one that questions things if I don't understand them. And I have a great life.

Brian - I have an older copy of Vegas Movie Studio and could not find this type of statement in the EULA. Could it be because they use a proprietary MPEG codec written just for Sony? I think it's called MainConcept MPEG-2???

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