Music?

Post links to music sources and discuss music choices for shows
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Music?

Postby Sixty Vette » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:39 pm

Hello everyone! I looked throughout the forums and could not find an answer to this exact question.

If you are interested in starting a business creating slidewhows - and you put music in the slideshow - are there copyright problems using songs in slideshows you sell. I mean if I buy the CD - or download from iTunes and legally own the song (so to speak), is there a problem incorporating in a slideshow you sell?

Thanks everyone! :lol:
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Re: Music?

Postby Studio7Productions » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:11 pm

Hi. When you purchase a CD or Download from itunes, they are for your own personal use.... the copyright problem only occurs if you sell the slideshows, or for that matter, give them away........no easy way round it I'm afraid....

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Re: Music?

Postby Sixty Vette » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:57 pm

Thanks Mel, then how do people do it? I mean there are many sites out there offering to create slideshows for various reasons, birthdays, anniversaries, wedding, vacations and even funerals. How are they getting around it then I wonder? Or just playing teh game and taking their chances?

Studio7Productions wrote:Hi. When you purchase a CD or Download from itunes, they are for your own personal use.... the copyright problem only occurs if you sell the slideshows, or for that matter, give them away........no easy way round it I'm afraid....

Mel
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Re: Music?

Postby BarbaraC » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:36 pm

Bob, those people are counting on no one noticing since the shows are done, essentially, for just a few people as opposed to being broadcast.

legally own the song (so to speak)

No, the artist/music company owns the song. You own circular plastic and the right to listen to the music. No matter what the item--music, art, writing--copyright means the right to copy it belongs only to the originator. It's an interesting problem because no one ever thinks to copy a book and make money from doing so, and only forgers think to do this with art, but the poor musicians have a heck of a time.

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Re: Music?

Postby Bart_B » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:55 pm

Where I have a problem with this whole thing is the poor musicians need exposure to their work. In some circles, exposure is called advertising. Advertising costs big bucks. When I or others do a show and feature a little known "poor musician", that poor musician is getting for free what they can't afford on their own. Advertising. I really need to go through my ever growing iTunes library which cumulatively cost a small and ever growing fortune to figure out how much I have spent to accumulate a collection of music from "poor musicians" that I would never have spent if it hadn't been for being introduced to these "poor musicians" through free advertising that they would have never gotten otherwise. A chunk of what I spend ultimately goes to that musician. I suspect I am not the only source of revenue gained similarly for the musicians. Personally, I think they need to pull their heads out for breath of air and think about how they market their work. I understand that there is the law. I also understand that their is common sense. I think the music industry needs to embrace a little of the second.

But that's just me.

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Re: Music?

Postby DickK » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:23 pm

First, you might find something here to be of use:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8583
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8758

Bottom line is that if you're making and selling shows then you really need to be careful. While it may not be likely, a single lawsuit can put you out of business. Legally speaking there's no way you can use commercial music (or other photos, video, etc) in your productions without a license specifically allowing derivative works to be created and sold. You are making money from their product and they're going to want a piece of that and some simply won't allow it at all. Maybe they never find out. If they do maybe they decide to ignore you and maybe they decide to give their legal staff something to do this week.

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Re: Music?

Postby GEQ » Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:13 pm

I think your statment "legally own the song so to speak" says it all. The use of copywrited material has legal ramifications. It would be akin to someone taking your shows and using them without your permission.

It'a a hard issue to get around, just be aware that someone may want to use you as a test case.


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Re: Music?

Postby BarbaraC » Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:03 am

When I or others do a show and feature a little known "poor musician", that poor musician is getting for free what they can't afford on their own.

Is it not up to the "poor musician" whether or not you get to use his or her long hours of work for free and what he or she needs and wants? It's his or her right, not yours, to decide.

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Re: Music?

Postby debngar » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:04 am

Warning, contains profanity....

"Pay The Writer" (and photographer, musician, etc etc etc)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE
~~~~~~~~~~~
This is also eye opening:
"How Much Do Music Artists Earn Online"
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2 ... rn-online/

This is the spreadsheet version of the above:
"Musician Digital Royalties"
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... n_GB#gid=0

Depending on how it's being marketed, a lot of people can be getting a slice of the price of a song which leaves the artist only 15%.

Anyone who runs a successful business knows (or should know) the cost of doing business and prices the service or product so they can STAY in business. If they don't, they won't be in business for very long and that product or service will no longer be available to those who want or need it.
Last edited by debngar on Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Music?

Postby BarbaraC » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:25 am

Perfect, Debbie.

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Re: Music?

Postby Bart_B » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:49 am

Is it not up to the "poor musician" whether or not you get to use his or her long hours of work for free and what he or she needs and wants? It's his or her right, not yours, to decide.


As usual I suspect I mangled the English language. I meant to imply nothing to do with the word "free" as it relates the the acquisition of music. Rather what I was trying to say is I have bought and paid for a lot of music that had I not heard it used here or elsewhere, I would not have not even known that it existed and therefor would never have bought it. The use of the music in my context is paid for. The hearing it constitutes the "free" advertising. Once I discover it's existence, I buy and pay for it. Assuming I am not unique to the world, I believe that others buy in much the same way. So If I buy music, use it in a show, I am advertising it for others to hear and that costs the musician nothing. In fact the musician got paid by me to make others aware of it. Probably some end up buying it for their libraries. So my point, probably not well made, is that the music industry which is and has been notoriously behind the curve on how to market might benefit by a little thought on how they might sell more music.

My point is not to rip off the poor musician, my point is the poor musician needs to figure out how to sell more music.

Just my opinion.

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Re: Music?

Postby BarbaraC » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:06 am

Bart, though it's possible a sale or maybe even two might happen in reaction to your use of someone's music, the copyright still belongs to the musician. Don't forget which road is paved with good intentions. Granted, the only hay you're making with other people's music is some compliments, but I believe what's being discussed here is heftier hay, the kind where someone is paid for doing a show. We all tend to behave as if we don't know any better even though we do when it comes to personal shows, but using another person's work to make money for oneself goes beyond petty theft.

This happens to be one of my hot buttons. :D

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Re: Music?

Postby Bart_B » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:10 am

Barbara,

My only point is, maybe, just maybe copyright law is not as well thought out as it could be.

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Re: Music?

Postby BarbaraC » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:17 am

Depends on where you're coming from, but regardless, it is what it is and is unlikely to change no matter the spin placed on illegal use.

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Re: Music?

Postby Ron » Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:58 pm

no matter the spin

People love to spin everything towards their own benefit.

Debbie on a side note ... WRT Harlan Ellison, he makes his point very well and which I agree with 100%. Unfortunately he comes across as an arogant, arguementative, asshole. I'm a liitle familiar with some of his work, going back to his affilation with the original Star Trek. This man is a very talented writer/artist and some of his works are a must read. But as a man I have no respect for hiss pompous manner. Just my 2 cents ... Sorry for my little rant ...

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