Music Copyright Question

[AMD Profile Private message]

Barbara,

Check out the first paragraph and a bit farther in this link; of course, I am only reading what I have found on the Web but have seen this, essentially, several times.

Ann

http://www.pdinfo.com/record.php

[BarbaraC Profile Private messageWebsite]

Ann, that makes it pretty darned clear, doesn't it? Anything recorded no matter when must be assumed to be covered by copyright law. I'm too lazy to look up the exact date when recordings started being made, but I'm willing to say that recordings, according to this law, have longer copyright protection than any other intellectual property in the world. I wonder why it was decided to give recording companies (because that's who it really is) more protection than book publishers or photographers or anyone else in the arts.

Barbara

[AMD Profile Private message]

Barbara,

Yes, it would appear quite clear. Guess Bono really worked hard getting his area covered even more, too.

I guess the safest and only legal thing for us to do is either record our own or buy royalty-free. I just wish there were more affordable royalty-free vocals out there. I think TripleScoop has some rather nice ones but $60 bucks a track is a bit too pricey for me and my little shows.

Ann

[BarbaraC Profile Private messageWebsite]

I dealt with one independent for a charity show I did where the sales of the DVD would go to the charity. The musician donated the use of his music with the only stipulation being that he be given a byline. His guitar music is beautiful, but it took me forever to find him in the sea of hopeful musicians out there.

I'll continue using commercial music for just me, myself, and I, but I wouldn't even consider doing it for anything else. I wish I could afford to pay the independents because they really deserve at least a small break, but there's this thing called eating and then there's paying the mortgage and all that other stuff.

Barbara

[SherryJB Profile Private message]

Facebook and You Tube have both deleted my shows before because they claim it is illegally used music. Is it though? If I purchased a song can't I post my personal show on my facebook page. I am not selling it or using it for personal gain.

OK folks, now I have a question...

As a historian, I somewhat understand and respect copyrights, and assumed if I was doing something for a business or for personal gain that I could not use others music, pictures, or graphics, etc. without permission or paying a premium.

My question is this, (referring to Glenn's quote above), there are videos all over sites like You Tube using copyrighted music. For instance, Deb, the show you shared just before Christmas of the Silent Monks used a copyrighted version of the Hallelujah Chorus. People put up the words to current songs, and use the music to illustrate their home videos, etc..

Why would You Tube make Glenn take down his show, when others are doing the same thing?

Sherry B.

[silverfox Profile Private message]

from Youtube Website (note "Anytime YouTube becomes aware")

YouTube Copyright Policy: Consequences of uploading copyrighted material
Print

Anytime YouTube becomes aware that a video or any part of a video on our site infringes the copyrights of a third party, we will take it down from the site as required by law. If you believe that a video on the site infringes your copyright, please send us a copyright notice and we'll take it down. If you believe we've removed a video that you uploaded in error and that you are the copyright owner or have permission, you can file a counter notice and let us know. Accounts determined to be repeat infringers may be subject to termination. Users with suspended or terminated accounts are prohibited from creating new accounts or accessing YouTube's community features.

DISCLAIMER: WE ARE NOT YOUR ATTORNEYS, AND THE INFORMATION WE PRESENT HERE IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE. WE PRESENT THIS INFORMATION FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY.

The above as posted on YouTube

[HunnyB Profile Private message]

I guess, in reality, we are all breaking the copyright law by posting our shows here.

I have to be honest, I don't think I even own one single song that is legal

[AMD Profile Private message]

I own a ton of royalty-free music--from Digital Juice, Amazon.com, Muse, to SonicFire--and don't really like any of it. There is nothing to match those popular copyrighted tracks that so many people use. I have really tried, though, to make sure that what I produce contains royalty-free pieces and just have to realize that my end products don't measure up to the ones created by those who do use the copyrighted music. It really is a troubling situation, unfortunately. I would just be happy if an organization could pull together some good music with vocals of the quality of TripleScoop but at a much lower price. At $60 per track, TripleScoop's music for a short show requiring 3 tracks is too rich for me.

Ann

[PhotoMill Profile Private message]

Ann, you just summed it all up. For instance, I spent the first 6 hours of today listening to the start of over 300 tracks. I really can't say that I liked any of it.

Last week I spent close to 4 hours talking to and emailing the Canadian copyright authority "SOCAN" about what I needed to CMA (cover my ASSets) regarding the use of music in a slide show presentation. The bottom line is too horrific to even describe. I was sent to a Canadian Gov't agency which, at arms length, enforces the royalty payments. How do I describe the term, "convoluted" to it's max. It involves booking way ahead, the time slot that you would use the music and the number of times it would be played. Oh yes, and please send a pre-usage cheque for $250.00 prior to the event. It was a nightmare.... until yesterday when I received a call from a SOCAN agent in Montreal, Quebec. She stated that she did some investigating for my situation and that if I checked into the BMI and ASCAP as well as SESAC agencies, I would find that none of these main licencing bodies are authorized to license any work that involves a very important term here. The term that is popping up all the time is "Synchronization Rights" You see, if you put a slide show on a media of any kind and then place a copyrighted music track on that same media (including an internet based site) then you are in violation of copyright. There are several work-arounds however. They are all very cumbersome, timely and possibly very expensive. There are so many agencies at work here that, in the end, the ones who should be seeing the $$ are actually seeing red. That is why so many artists and musicians are leaving the main frame and venturing into other areas such as "Royalty Free" etc. At least they get to buy some weiners with their beans.

The following is probably the most important piece of info that I was given. At the narrow end of the money funnel, we have: A) the ARTIST (musician/writer) B) the PUBLISHER If you are asking for the fair usage rights of a music track that you want, then you must contact BOTH of these entities. If either of them say no, then it is no. Or, if both say YES, then you may not want to pay the requested fee. Getting a yes from both of them is akin to pulling hens teeth. I was wished "Good Luck".

It is no small wonder that lawyers make a small fortune when dealing with copyright issues. Did you know that I can not "legally", make a Memorial DVD for a funeral home which includes a music track of any kind (even my own, if I were a musician) unless I bought a license which gave me "Synch rights"? What IS legal however, is the usage of a silent photo slide show being played from a DVD player and immediately beside it, a CD player with any kind of music that I wanted. I would have to start both machines at the same time to get the effect. BUT, I can not have photos on the same piece of plastic (a DVD disk) as a music track.
That's the law, and that is where all of this gobbaldy-goop stands at this time. I'm still working on it all and will update this thread as I am "enlightened".

...Steve

[AMD Profile Private message]

Steve,

Thanks for the information. You have really done some work with discouraging results.

You know, I believe the "powers that be" in the music industry would find that they would be even better off financially if they could or would "cut some slack" regarding their products; i.e., allow videographers, slideshow creators, etc., to purchase some type of copy at a slight premium that could be used in a single show limited to x-number of produced copies. It could certainly give them more sales as I would think it would perhaps encourage more people to legally use music rather than use it illegally just taking the chance that they won't get in trouble.

I just finished a show today and feel good about everything except the music--a royalty-free piece.

Ann

[BarbaraC Profile Private messageWebsite]

Steve, I went through what you did to a much lesser degree because I gave up earlier, but you say you aren't allowed to use music you've composed and performed yourself? You must have misunderstood something in there. It's equal to saying you're committing a crime if you wear a sweater you've knitted yourself.

Barbara

[PhotoMill Profile Private message]

Hi Barbara... Actually, just give it a bit more time and you will be in trouble for making your own sweater. You see, the biggest involvement here comes from a 3 letter word: T A X . It is painfully obvious that governments from all over the globe do not want it's citizens to have any kind of enjoyment unless they pay up front. Canada is is one of the highest tax grabbers on the planet and yes, if I were a musician with limited skills (lets say I could play the spoons and blow into a jug and stomp my feet to a rhythm) and I was entertaining some folks at an establishment, then that establishment would have to pay a Canadian agency a $94.00 fee because it had live music on it's property. Sound ridiculous? Well it is, but, it's all too true and extremely enforceable. Much like wine, spirits, tobacco, gambling etc., music is akin to a vice. Government's tax the popular vice's at extremely high rates and music falls into the same category. Take a look at the agencies like BMI and then look at how many times the term "government embodied" comes up. It's all about "tax". Probably the dirtiest 3 letter word ever made !!

...Steve

[BarbaraC Profile Private messageWebsite]

Steve, if you and I got together in person and started talking about taxes, we'd probably both of us have strokes, but I have to say that taxing the performance of music goes beyond the ridiculous. And yet, what can we expect of politicians who require everyone's money so they can do something for everyone so everyone will vote those same politicians back into office?

Next up: The Smile Tax.

Barbara

[Pat Profile Private message]

I came across the following post regarding getting your audio back from youtube on a slideshow:

First of all, it takes TIME for your audio to come back.
Sorry if your videos are getting blocked because of Video copyright claims, I don't think there's anything you can do about it. This only helps if the problem is your AUDIO (music specifically) on your videos.

Now onto how to actually get the audio back.
1) Go to "My Videos".
2) Select "Resolve Copyright" on the video you are having copyright issues with. OR, go to the video itself and choose "resolve copyright" from there.
3) Scroll down and pick the option "I want to learn more about this dispute process".
4) Scroll down and pick the option "Take me to the dispute form".
5) Pick option #2 and PASTE the following statement into the text bar next to it;

"Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use."

6) Fill out the rest of the info on the page. Use your REAL name where it asks for it. Choose "Continue" when all information has been filled out.
7) Scroll down on the next page and select "Submit dispute".

Within 2-3 minutes your video's audio should be back!

Occasionally this will not work. This copyright covers 99% of copyrighted entertainment. Also, this will ONLY apply if you are not making any profit off your videos. If you intend to become a youtube partner, I would not suggest doing this.

Have not yet tried it, but found it interesting none the less...

[debngar Profile Private message]

I came across the following post regarding getting your audio back from youtube on a slideshow:

-snip-
This only helps if the problem is your AUDIO (music specifically) on your videos.
-snip-

"Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use."

6) Fill out the rest of the info on the page. Use your REAL name where it asks for it. Choose "Continue" when all information has been filled out.
7) Scroll down on the next page and select "Submit dispute".

Within 2-3 minutes your video's audio should be back!

Occasionally this will not work. This copyright covers 99% of copyrighted entertainment. Also, this will ONLY apply if you are not making any profit off your videos. If you intend to become a youtube partner, I would not suggest doing this.

Have not yet tried it, but found it interesting none the less...

Wow, this is an eye opener. I wonder if there are people that have used this successfully based on that 1976 law. But I also wonder if there were laws passed after that which may have nullified it. If it still applies, that would be really neat to be able to use stuff on YouTube if it was for non-profit use for instance.

Thanks for sharing that.