Simple mask causing me problems

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Simple mask causing me problems

Postby nsd3 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:37 am

I use PSP8 I’m trying to create a slide that has the following elements in it.

First, a photo that acts as the background.
Second, a portrait photo that appears on top of the background, with a white border around it. So far so good, that’s the easy part.

What I want to do now is animate this portrait photo in two ways:
First, I want to change its size on screen as slide time progresses.
Second, simultaneously, I want to animate the actual image itself behind (or looking through the border). In essence the white border of the photo is really acting like a frame, and I’m looking at the image through it.

I realise this requires a mask, and I have been able to re-create the exact effect I want for the slide, but I seem to be working very hard to do so, involving Photoshop in order to make some of the layers for the slide.

I’m sure there must be an easier way to do this all within PSP8, but if there is, I’ve had no success in doing so.

If it is possible, I’d be grateful if someone could point me some pointers on how to proceed.


Thanks in advance,


Steve

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Re: Simple mask causing me problems

Postby cherub » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:52 am

Hi Steve,
I'm not sure that I understand what you are asking. That is, I don't quite follow your description about the increase of size as the slide progresses, and also, at the same time animating the image inside the frame. Are they not the same thing? Do you want the image inside the frame to change size in a different way than the frame itself?

But, to answer your question about the mask.
Actually, using a graphic editor (eg. Photoshop), is the easier way to create masking effects for Producer. By creating a frame and a mask that have absolutely the same dimensions, you can duplicate the motions of each layer much easier. Of course, you need to save your frame as a png file with transparency and your mask as either a png or a jpg.

If you wish to create such an effect only in Producer, you would need to create your frame by using Adjustments/Vignette options for your image.
You would also need to create a mask out of a solid or a gradient layer, and to resize it proportionally, to the border of your picture.
If you need to play with the zooms for your animation, the mask would need to be calculated separately.
Please let me know if you wish me to go into more specific instructions.

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Re: Simple mask causing me problems

Postby nsd3 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:09 am

Hi Mona,

You're absolutely right with your assumption, I want the frame to change size, independently of whatever I may wish to do with the image behind it. From your description of performing these steps entirely with PSP8, I guess I've already gone down that route and found out just how painstaking a process it is is. I used Photoshop to create the masks and frames as I found it easier overall, but still thought I was missing a trick within PSP. I guess not! Probably something to put forward as a feature request.

Many thanks for the clarification though, I appreciate it.

Steve

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Re: Simple mask causing me problems

Postby im42n8 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:10 pm

A vignette "border" takes up portions of the image itself, hiding anything beneath it. I'd use it only as a last resort, generally speaking.

A layer residing beneath your image (or image and associated mask) can give the appearance of an outline/frame. One thing you need to be aware of when resizing your Image-mask layer AND the Outline/Frame layer, is that two must typically resize at the same rate for the the relative size of the outline width to be consistently resized appropriately. Otherwise, one axis will get larger than the other axis. Judicious resizing planning can work around that. You need to closely work this stuff when the layer's themselves are not square.

A fill frame scaled 3:2 (1.5) aspect image zoomed to 65% has a width of 65 and height of 77.04. Add an outline that puts a 3% normalized outline around that image requires a 1.439 aspect layer. That would be a 3:2 aspect layer zoomed to 71% in the X-Axis and 74% in the Y-Axis (or a 3200:2208 layer at a zoom of 71%). That puts outline layer's width and height to 71.0, 87.70.

Now, change the image layer's zoom over time to 75%. The layer's width and height is 75,88.89. If you aim to keep that 3% outline width, you'll need to change that outline layer's x-zoom to 81% and the y-zoom to 84%. That puts the outline layer's width and height to 81.0, 99.56. The outline layer's aspect ratio has changed to 1.446 (or a layer with dimensions of 3200:2212 at a zoom of 81%). The changes might not seem like much ... but they can have a very perceptual visual difference that's hard to ignore.

If you're using a frame, you can, to a certain extent, hide the disparity in size changes between the image mask and its frame as long as the mask is resided beneath the frame and the mask resizing remains beneath any frame real estate. An image resizing within the mask would only need to worry about how you want it to look. But, if you want maximum image exposure the mask size must resize closely to the inside hole of the frame. That means you'll have to pay attention to the aspects of the mask and frame similar to that given above.

Dale
What's New: Tools for ProShow: v11.42a Access ProShow capabilities Photodex doesn't provide (For PSG & PSP).
FPVP Blog "Making the Difficult Easier," FPVP News

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Re: Simple mask causing me problems

Postby nsd3 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:04 pm

Hi Dale,

Yes, I fell foul of the ever changing ratios when I first started experimenting. To get around it, I used Photoshop to create a transparent image, with a frame (or border) around it in the color I wanted. This would become layer 1 in PSP8. I then created a second image identical in dimensions to the transparency image, with a frame around it that matched the frame dimensions of the one I just created in the transparency image. The second image is all white, apart from the frame/border which is black. This second image becomes layer 2 in PSP8. The borders for both Photoshop images are in essence part of the image itself and not a vignette added later in the workflow within PSP8.

In PSP8, the second layer is the true masking layer, which as explained above, in my scenario it's basically all white, with the black border. If you compared the two images in Photoshop (for clarity, each image in Photoshop will be a single layer in PSP8), they're identical, except the transparent element of image 1 is white in image 2.

So back in PSP8:
Layer 1 is the transparent image created in Photoshop.
Layer 2 is the masking image created in Photoshop.
Layer 3 is the image you want to manipulate behind (or through) the mask.
Once all the above layers are added to the slide in that order, layer 2 is set as the masking layer.

As long as you replicate any changes relating to size, position, rotation, tilt etc. to both layers 1 and 2 identically, everything stays in sync. You can then manipulate layer 3 to achieve the slide effect you want to achieve. After that, it's just a matter of adding the other layers to complete the slide.

Hope that made sense!


Steve

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Re: Simple mask causing me problems

Postby im42n8 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:07 am

Yes. If all characteristics of the layers are the same (aspect, scale, size), and all changes that affect one are made on the others, you have won't have the headaches to contend with you otherwise would have. You leveled the playing field, so to speak. And that's wonderful! :D

Not everyone will want to go to the extra effort to treat their images and supporting elements that you did.

When it comes to outlines/frames ... ProShow could use some beefing up in that area. Those features haven't changed since introduced a decade or more ago...

Dale
What's New: Tools for ProShow: v11.42a Access ProShow capabilities Photodex doesn't provide (For PSG & PSP).
FPVP Blog "Making the Difficult Easier," FPVP News

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Re: Simple mask causing me problems

Postby im42n8 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:51 pm

I was finally able to get to making a demo of this being done by properly controlling the zoom along each axis according to the aspect needed to achieve the effect.

If you do not have the proper tools, your best bet is to put all of the elements into a program like photoshop and give them all a transparent background that effectively converts every layer to the same aspect (say, 16:9). Not everyone knows how to do that or has the ability to do it.

Unfortunately, ProShow isn't much help either. However, with the right tools, it's extremely possible. My Tools for ProShow was used to create the affect.

All layers have a base aspect of 3:2. The image layer was masked and was resized at a different rate than all other layers. The other layers were resized at the same rate but from different different starting zoom settings to different ending zoom settings (except for the white outline layer and its shadow layer ... they had the same settings ... they were just had changing positions relative to each other). The key was finding the right zoom settings to achieve the required aspect during each stage of the demo. Tools for ProShow pretty much makes this a piece of cake ... (in other words, EASY)

This is just a demo ... not a how-to...



Dale
What's New: Tools for ProShow: v11.42a Access ProShow capabilities Photodex doesn't provide (For PSG & PSP).
FPVP Blog "Making the Difficult Easier," FPVP News

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