One year without release

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Re: One year without release

Postby Astra » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:43 pm

Dale,
I was intrigued by your comment:
im42n8 wrote:But, a 64-bit application isn't all we would like to have here ... some robust improvement in capabilities and features that advanced users (and the real experts) can take advantage of would be nice. Right now, only the really advanced users can make effective use of some of ProShow's features or to make ProShow do some of the really impressive stuff. That's stuff that's available if you know what you're looking at and have a really inquiring mind. However, that capability is "hidden" in plain sight because Photodex didn't provide the tools to exploit those features ... they have to be created or developed by the end-user. It shouldn't be that way. However, most people, including many advanced users have no idea this capability exists ... in short, they don't know what they don't know (thinking they know everything there is to know about the program).
Dale

Would be so kind & elaborate little, what exactly did you have in mind?
Thanks,
Astra

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Re: One year without release

Postby im42n8 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:15 am

The fact that pan, zoom, and rotate center are all inter-related is a feature that few know about (despite me announcing that fact over 4.5 years ago) ... and Photodex isn't advertising the fact. They introduced Rotate Center with v4 specifically to allow people to rotate a layer on a side or corner (previously it was only possible to rotate a layer on its center). Thinking that everyone would simply be happy with the ability to rotate on a corner or side, they only implemented a very limited Rotate Center functionality. In fact, the manual (to this day) still refers to the feature as having a range of 100, plus or minus. In fact, it isn't limited at all. They never dreamed anyone would use it beyond the bare minimum and so never fully implemented the feature. The recommended playing with it to get a feel for it. The problem is that a small change in position, zoom, or aspect of show or layer would drastically affect the rotate center value ... and getting the rotate center location back after any changes was next to impossible. However, knowing the relationship between the functions corrected that oversight of Photodex's.

The boxes associated with each of the functions is linearly thought of by most everyone as being associated with those functions themselves. Almost nobody thinks of them in any other fashion. But, they are only containers for numbers that the function uses directly. You can use those boxes for any purpose you want when using modifiers. As long as you ensure the calculation result in that box stays within the limits of that box (0 to 100, -100 to 100, etc), you're fine. The modifier will read it just fine. If you need larger numbers, do the conversion to that larger number AFTER the box value has been read.

Modifiers use a linear calculation scheme. So, the result of each calculation is used for the next action ... there is no hierarchical structure. Complex equations can be created using multiple actions ... and you can string the results from multiple boxes into another modifier (you have to build any hierarchy that you need) in another box on another layer.

Using layers simply for calculations or control of other layers... not for any kind of display of that layer... is also something that can be used too. The idea of using a layer that's hidden which controls the position of another layer is an early and simple control feature. But, to use its boxes for calculations too and then to have other layers use those values for their own purposes isn't all that obvious to many ... most people simply don't think about those things that way. They simply use what they're given and that's pretty much that.

Piecing these things together can allow complexities unable to be achieved any other way. Knowing what can be read by modifiers and when, for controlling other layers, you can build a decent amount of "automation" into an effect. Further, you can implement a more fully fleshed out rotate center capability using these techniques. That is, as the layer's position changes (that is, pan), you can have requisite calculations automatically performed that adjusts the rotate center accordingly. It means you can do something that's otherwise simply impossible to do.

You can give a level of automation to an effect that's not otherwise possible, if you know how to string these concepts together. It's something I've been doing for years now. Thinking outside the box is what this is. If you have a particular need in mind, and nobody has told you that it can't be done, you can find a way to accomplish a whole bunch of things. You simply have to be creative sometimes and think of things in a slightly different way than you're used to. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. In the meantime, you find out what can and can't be done ... and why it is so. You find the limits aren't what you thought they were.

Top level information to be sure ... but, this should be more than enough for the technically inclined and highly curious to try something new. Most people aren't even interested in this kind of thing. With the release of v3, I've tried to figure out what I could do with the program without relying on 3rd party stuff. One thing led to another. And, since I didn't know I wasn't supposed to do some of the things I've done, I came up with some "innovative" ways of using the program's features. It's how I discovered a workable exact zoom following technique... two different versions actually.

For those innovative folks who like to "tinker," finding new capabilities of the program opens up possibilities they never thought of ... just when they thought they knew all there was to the program too. Most people don't go there though. A number of my effects use this stuff. Yes, some of it looks pretty simple. It's only when you actually try to duplicate it that you find it's not what it appears to be. Then too, there's flexibility built into some of those systems that adds functionality beyond initial appearances. An example, perhaps, is the kaleidoscope effects I created. You have some functionality there that's not possible without some of the features mentioned above. I created a "clothes line" effect that can use between 2 to 8 (a display of 2 images on-screen at a time) or 3 to 8 images (3 images displayed at time) per slide... and you can string multiple slides together to create infinite clotheslines or one of a specific length ... seamlessly. Without those "automation" techniques, that's impossible to do.

Dale
What's New: Tools for ProShow: v11.42a Access ProShow capabilities Photodex doesn't provide (For PSG & PSP).
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Re: One year without release

Postby Astra » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:33 pm

Dale,
thank you for your answer (to my question) & also for your time.
It is truly amazing, inspirational (and sometimes humbling) - how some people could know so much and then share their knowledge freely & willingly ...
Thank you - you are a true great example of Enthusiasts.
All the best - Alex/Astra

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Re: One year without release

Postby EJAB » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:25 pm

Boy ,, I go away for a week and all the goodies appear. I, like Luke, only want the 64bit to enable Producer to utilize the additional memory and stop it going to heaven halfway through
a show.(my speed it excellent) i would also like not to have to resize the 12 to 24 megapixel shots, render to the ultimate quality, which includes Blu-ray. I classify myself as a "Driver" only.
The real experts are the likes of, Dale - (My F1 Driver) - Mikey - (Top pit stop engineer) - Jeep - Luke etc. The shows I create are in the main very large e.g. The last two where 800 and 1200 slides (includes video) but I have had Producer crash in a show with only 28 slides (mind you I included the same amount of Styles) so I do push the boundary's most of the time. Producer is a great program!! but, only helped along by the efforts of the inside and outside people who create the Transitions and Style packs ! I am in awe of this talent.
I have also spent a great deal of time in trying to study the 32bit systems and the reasons up to around 1.6 to 1. 8 GB is only available. The blogs around the world are contradictory to say the least. Some are very pro Yes it can be done,, others say a defining no. As a result maybe just maybe their are a couple of programs that can override this Microsoft hurdle. As yet I am not game to try them. In the meantime,, we wait,,we wait.
Enjoy reading you thoughts guys, Thank you.

Kind Regards
EJAB (aka John Byron Melbourne Australia)

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Re: One year without release

Postby tomcran » Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:40 pm

Jeep wrote:Hi Tom,
4k on TV is UHDTV format which is 3840 x 2160 (a 16:9 ratio). It's a few different than 4k d-cinema but it will be as easy to produce. Use MPEG-4 SP as to avoid a too large file. It will be as good as MPEG-4 AVC on your TV. Normally these new TVs are MPEG-4 compatible and you may write your production on a USB key. Be careful to format your key in NTFS in order to write large files, if not you would be limited to the FAT format and 4 Gb.
You may write your file on a Blu-ray disk as data, it should be read by your 4K player. In that case you simply copy your MPEG-4 file onto the BD but it will require a really compatible 4K player.
Tell us the outcome of the story.


I received and have been using the 4K TV. The MP4 file on the USB3 doesn't work - TV says doesn't recognize the file. But, very significantly, I can now use proshow produced blu ray shows on blu ray disk, with the pictures at their full 4K resolution, and with motion effects - no distortion!! With the regular, old HD TV (I'm not sure of the term, but I'll describe it) - it was like when you see someone on TV wearing a checked jacket and they move - the lines kind of flicker when using full resolution photos. Well, that sort of thing doesn't happen with the 4k TV. For music videos with photos and videos (which is all I do with proshow) I used to always reduce the resolution to at least 2500, often lower, to avoid the flicker. Now I don't have to do that and I am amazed at how good it looks. Now I have to go back and replace all the lowered resolution photos in my shows with the full resolution ones. That's all right - I'm overjoyed with this TV (Samsung 8550). (Am watching Avatar now in 3d - amazing.)

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Re: One year without release

Postby ezwriter » Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:24 pm

I can now use proshow produced blu ray shows on blu ray disk, with the pictures at their full 4K resolution, and with motion effects - no distortion!!

Tomcram, I am aware of the Samsung 4K TV being unable to play an MP4 file from USB. Samsung seems to have a requirement that video files must use an S4DU codec and their converter doesn't work. I am not aware that PSP can output a BluRay show in 4K. I see only 1080p as best available. How did you manage to create a true 4K BluRay show output?

Thanks,
[another] Dale

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Re: One year without release

Postby Jeep » Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:39 am

You may use the S4UD codec converter you could find here : http://support-us.samsung.com/cyber/pop ... F9000AFXZA
Jean-Pierre

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Re: One year without release

Postby ezwriter » Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:48 am

Thanks, Jeep. I'm aware of that S4UD codec converter from the Samsung site. Last time I tried to use it (a few months ago), it either wouldn't install, or wouldn't do the conversion - I don't remember. I downloaded it again just now, and did successfully install this time. I fed it a 3 minute long, 102MB 4K.mp4 test show I created in PSP6. In ~24 minutes, it successfully converted it to a 2.95GB S4UD container, but my Samsung 4K TV would not recognize the file from its USB input. Unfortunately, the link to the User Manual for the codec converter is broken, but I'll play with it some more when I get a little time. If you know of any tips using this converter program, I'd appreciate your letting me know.

[another] Dale

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Re: One year without release

Postby heckydog » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:06 am

ezwriter wrote:
I can now use proshow produced blu ray shows on blu ray disk, with the pictures at their full 4K resolution, and with motion effects - no distortion!!

Tomcram, I am aware of the Samsung 4K TV being unable to play an MP4 file from USB. Samsung seems to have a requirement that video files must use an S4DU codec and their converter doesn't work. I am not aware that PSP can output a BluRay show in 4K. I see only 1080p as best available. How did you manage to create a true 4K BluRay show output?

Thanks,
[another] Dale


PSP doesn't output a 4K bluray disc. The TV is upconverting the 1080p bluray disc to display as 4K on the TV. I don't think 4K discs will be called bluray when they really hit the market. Probably just 4K or Ultra HD. Because the TV has 4 times as many pixels that's why a bluray disc can look better than if seen on a 1080p TV.

The same is happening if you have a bluray player and play a standard dvd in it. It will be upconverted using algorithms designed for that purpose.

added: found an article and here's an excerpt:

The Blu-Ray Disc Association (BDA) used CES as its opportunity to expand on its previous announcement that 4K Blu-ray discs will be on shelves by Christmas 2015.
The organization has revealed the format's official name will be Ultra HD Blu-ray, says The Hollywood Reporter, while tech site Hexus has the specifics.
Last edited by heckydog on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: One year without release

Postby Jeep » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:22 am

4K blu-ray do exist and should be released in 2015. They can be populated with 100 Gb of data. 4K blu-ray players do exist too and are yet on the shelves of a few dealers.
The only limit is that ProShow doesn't know how to burn them, but .... you can output in MPEG-4 4K with ProShow and burn a blu-ray disk as data as to be read on a 4K player.
In France we can buy 4K blu-ray players around 150 - 200 € (200 - 250 $). They can be used as interface with a 4K TV via a USB port then it becomes possible to have a 4K production on a 4K TV. Then, waiting for 4K Blu-ray disks, we can use a 4k blu-ray player with a USB key to watch our 4K outputs, or you can buy triple layer blu-ray disks as to have the 100 Gb capacity, https://www.nierle.com/s01.php?shopid=s ... popularity
Jean-Pierre

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Re: One year without release

Postby ezwriter » Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:04 pm

Heckydog, I was pretty sure that what tomcram was seeing was an up-converted image as you describe. Thanks for the confirmation.

Jeep, thanks, too, for the info on coming availability of 4K BluRay. Yes, playing a 4K.mp4 through either its disc or USB input should be possible. I was wondering if you ever successfully played a converted S4DU file on a 4K TV. Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack your thread by turning it into a 4K discussion, so I'll stop for now, but I sure am interested in playing a PSP show in true 4K one day.

[another] Dale

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Re: One year without release

Postby tomcran » Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:27 pm

ezwriter wrote:
I can now use proshow produced blu ray shows on blu ray disk, with the pictures at their full 4K resolution, and with motion effects - no distortion!!

Tomcram, I am aware of the Samsung 4K TV being unable to play an MP4 file from USB. Samsung seems to have a requirement that video files must use an S4DU codec and their converter doesn't work. I am not aware that PSP can output a BluRay show in 4K. I see only 1080p as best available. How did you manage to create a true 4K BluRay show output?

Thanks,
[another] Dale


I wasn't very clear at all, and was muddled. What I intended to say was - many of my photos are 4000/2248 size. I can produce the blu ray using photos of this size without reducing the resolution- their full resolution - and even have movement in the photos, through effects - and the TV handles it with ease (unlike my last TV). Yes, the blu ray will reduce the resolution to what it can handle - 1080p. But if my photos are 4k I no longer have to worry about photos starting out with high resolution causing problems. I no longer reduce the resolution, and I burn the discs using the highest output video setting - 35 mbps. No sign of any distortion on this TV. Man, it's time consuming going back through all my old music videos and slide-by-slide substituting higher resolution photos, but the payoff makes it worthwhile.

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Re: One year without release

Postby dberthia » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:47 am

I have to believe the reason for the extra long release cycle is that they've been pouring resources into Proshow Web at the expense of the desktop products. Perhaps they view that product as the future?

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Re: One year without release

Postby BarbaraC » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:18 am

dberthia wrote:I have to believe the reason for the extra long release cycle is that they've been pouring resources into Proshow Web at the expense of the desktop products. Perhaps they view that product as the future?

I'd have to go find something else to do in life. :cry:

Barbara
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Re: One year without release

Postby rogerdee » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:05 am

BarbaraC wrote:I'd have to go find something else to do in life. :cry:

Barbara


The length of time between releases really highlights what I've always considered to be a blatantly unfair upgrade policy:
As a ProShow Gold or ProShow Producer user, you are eligible for one year of free upgrades from the date of your original purchase. Any update we release within that year is a free upgrade.
For updates released after your year of free upgrades has expired, you have the option to purchase an upgrade.

One person, by sheer luck, could benefit by receiving a number of minor and major upgrades during that first year while another who invested the same amount but with less fortunate timing might receive absolutely nothing. Where's the fairness in that?

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